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Old 22nd Aug 2014, 9:59 am   #181
SteveCG
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Re: post no. 180,

Brian you are correct - I reckon the bungalows were put up in about 1967/8 from their appearance. As you say it is suprising about the non-removal. The little 'contractor cheapo' UHF aerial on the old pole points to the Malvern relay, as does the UHF aerial on the new pole. I think there was a community type distribution system between groups of the bungalows. There were at least 4 different Band I, Band III systems on this estate - all made by J-beam and all different !
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 9:50 pm   #182
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

For your perusal.

Spotted in Bridlington town centre near the harbour, an innocent looking horizontal array pointing south. Then I thought "wasn't Belmont (station of choice in Brid) vertically polarised?" Not only that, Belmont didn't broadcast on band I...

Which begs the question, what service did it receive when erected? Facing the wrong way for Scarborough - could it have been pre-Belmont picking up fringe reception from Mendlesham/Tacolneston?
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 10:33 pm   #183
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

And who installed that one next door?
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 9:02 am   #184
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

I get the feeling that the oddly mounted UHF array was probably an 18 element one before snapping in half. If not, it certainly is an odd way of mounting it!
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 9:14 am   #185
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Mendlesham/Tacolneston would make it Ch.3/11, which looks about right. It's a long haul, though. Was it known in the area?
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 2:34 pm   #186
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Both combined BI & III are by Antiference, dipole - director designs.

If as said (and the sun shadow in the second pic rather confirms this), the aerials are pointing south then Medlesham/Tacolneston would fit the direction. However as Brigham says it's an awfully long path - and at that distance I would have expected separates: a 4 element Band I and double 8 for Band III. The only other H-pol, Band I Tx in that rough direction was Peterborough on channel B5.

I wonder what the H-pol UHF transmitter is for the UHF aerials in the pictures? They all seem to be 10 el designs, so hardly fringe reception.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 3:40 pm   #187
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

The 10 element UHF's are aimed at Belmont, path is partly over the sea but works well most of the time
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 10:26 am   #188
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Thank you steve1010uk.

Now I wonder why the Antiference combined aerials are pointed at it? As has been pointed out Belmont 405 was Band III only, vertically polarized on channels B7 and B13. So if it was a case of using existing aerials for the 'new' service from Belmont then I would have thought that (if you were going to the trouble of going onto the roof) they would have been turned to be V-pol as well as pointing in the 'new' right direction. On the pedants side, one can also debate how well the Band III parts would have worked on channel 13.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 10:49 am   #189
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

I'm now thinking it's Peterborough Ch5 (H). It looks very similar to our local Ch5/8 combos for Pontop Pike/ Burnhope.

What would the ITA transmitter be?
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 10:58 pm   #190
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

The ITA transmitter could be Sandy Heath which used ch6 with horizontal polarisation. I find it hard to believe that the 1kw Peterborough band 1 signal would put a usable signal into Bridlington. Also Sandy Heath opened within a short time of Belmont in 1965.
This aerial does look similar to my VF100 VHF DX TV aerial I have in my loft. Pointing south or southeast into south and central Europe is about right.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 6:49 am   #191
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Post #182 is fascinating by the distance involved. It does indeed resemble our Pontop/Burnhope Ch5/8 combined type.

The BIII aerial appears to have shorter elements suggesting ch11 Mendlesham. On looking at the IBA VHF coverage map the nearest horizontal transmitters would appear to be Burnhope and Pontop Pike! Mendlesham had 200kW ERP where our Burnhope had 100kW.

Certainly such long distance reception could/would've been possible with the unobstructed sea path though one would've thought more elaborate aerials would've been needed. Tacolneston ch3 was only 45kW, then Pontop Pike was only 17kW which covered remarkably long distances considering.

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Old 5th Sep 2014, 12:11 pm   #192
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus Diode View Post
Post #182 is fascinating by the distance involved. It does then Pontop Pike was only 17kW which covered remarkably long distances considering
Was the original function of the 17KW Pontop Pike Ch5 transmitter a relay station for Holme Moss?

DFWB.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 1:37 pm   #193
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

A thought concerning the Bridglington aerials:

They've most likely been pushed off their top of their poles by the UHF aerials. so is there any chance the only reason that they are horizontal now, that it was to stop them snagging the UHF aerials?

Could they originally have been for Holme Moss and Emley Moor? (ie Chs B2 and B10, both vert pol). Not knowing that part of the country I don't know what the signal strength in Bridlington was from HM & EM. However my gut instinct is that the Band I elements are too short for B2...
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 5:47 pm   #194
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

There's another very similar aerial in Bridlington, horizontally polarized just the same, i will try get a pic of it soon,

i have been puzzling over where these were pointing at, i wonder if there was some low power VHF relay station somewhere near Hull but can find no mention of one

They are not directed at Holme Moss or Emley as both are over to the west,
these aerials definitely point south

Similar aerials are mounted with horizontal polarization just up the coast at Scarborough but these are aimed at Olivers mount relay in the town

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Old 5th Sep 2014, 9:17 pm   #195
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Wonder if it was on Olivers Mount originally & swung round to Belmont, but the person doing it didn't know that Belmont was vertical polarisation, just a thought..
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Old 6th Sep 2014, 10:24 am   #196
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Re post no. 194

I, for one, will be interested in any further pics of BI & BIII aerials in Bridlington.

Scarborough 405 was on channel B1 - and I would put a small wager on the idea that the aerials we are discussing are not B1 - far too short !

As for Peterborough on B5 - well I reckon that with Pontop Pike also Hpol and also on B5 then the co-channel interference in Bridlington would have been pronounced.

BTW, yes I am happy with the point that the aerials are now Hpol and point south - but were they always that way? is the question.

It certainly a 'teaser' this one!
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Old 6th Sep 2014, 10:43 am   #197
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Hi all. This may be of interest. I've just moved into a new flat and this is what I found!! Not exactly a B1 aerial but I think it's attached to one somewhere? Is this an aerial diplexer of some discription? (See photo) one of the valves had gone to air!!


Jan
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Old 6th Sep 2014, 11:11 am   #198
SteveCG
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Looks more like a distribution amplifier - perhaps to feed TV signals to all the flats? Indeed expanding the pic and putting a 90 degree crick in my neck, I think it says Distribution Amplifier on the manufactur's ident plate.
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Old 6th Sep 2014, 11:39 am   #199
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

T.I.S. - company still trading
http://www.tis.co.uk/
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Old 6th Sep 2014, 12:19 pm   #200
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

Might this be of use? I resized just the plate area x5.

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