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Old 6th Jul 2010, 12:21 pm   #21
mhennessy
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Default Re: Hacker Speaker Survey

Hi Ian,

Many thanks for that - it must have taken you ages to compile! I've updated the list to include them:

Quote:
  • Goodmans (3 bolts): 18 (8 in RP18, 5 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30, 1 in Jonster's AM Herald unnumbered - probably RP30, early RP10, Helsman RP36, Marine Herald RP32)
  • Goodmans (no bolts): 11 (My RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30, 3 AM Heralds RP35, 2 in Helsman RP36, 3 in VHF Herald RP37, 1 in Hunter RP38)
  • Celestion (silver frame): 6 (3 in Sovereign RP25, 1 in RP25A, 2 in VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Celestion (black frame): 4 (3 in Sovereign RP25B, 1 in VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (large magnet): 3 (VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (small magnet): 2 (Hunter RP38A)

* The AM Herald RP30 having a no-bolt Goodmans seems a bit anomalous, but this set is incomplete, and it's possibly not the original speaker. More on that when it arrives...
So your results reinforce my conclusions pretty well - many thanks again.

I would correct my earlier point:
Quote:
  • Or, the Goodmans speakers were used exclusively until the advent of the T309 tuner (RP25A and RP37A)?
It's clear that Hacker started using the Celestion in the RP25 before the tuner change. So far, the data shows that all RP37s have a Goodmans speaker, so I'd be interested to hear from anyone with an RP37 with a Celestion speaker.

Updated conclusions - changes in bold:
  1. The Goodmans speaker was the "general purpose" model that was used in most models. It is available in two versions: the earlier version had 3 bolts, later ones don't, and it's available in at least two impedances.
  2. The large magnet Elac was only fitted to RP37A VHF Heralds.
  3. The Celestions were only fitted to later RP25 Sovereigns and VHF Heralds (probably only RP37A. Later versions had a black chassis.
  4. An RP25 might have an early Goodmans with bolts, the later Goodmans sans bolts*, or a Celestion! I presume it depends on serial number, along with the usual production variances - trying to drill down further might be going too far
  5. RP25As and Bs should have the Celestion speaker... There's every chance that speakers in the RP25B sets will have a black frame.
  6. Finally, the Elac with the small magnet and gold-coloured frame/magnet was fitted to RP38A Hunters, and possibly later models throughout the 1970s (although according to the 1975 brochure, all other sets had a smaller 5 by 7" speaker, but from the pictures I've seen, I'm pretty sure it's still made by Elac).

* The only RP25 I know about with a no-bolts Goodmans is my set. Is my speaker non-original - perhaps they switched straight from bolted-Goodmans to the Celestion?

Thanks as always,

Mark
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Old 28th Jul 2010, 12:07 pm   #22
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Default Re: Hacker Speaker Survey

I have RP37A, RP35, and RP25 all having Goodmans speakers.
My RP25A has a plated (sivered appearance) chassis with no maker indication. I think that the RP25 sounds better than the RP25A. It has a more open uncoloured quality on speech.
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Old 29th Jul 2010, 11:18 am   #23
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Hello, and welcome

Thanks for the info - of the Goodmans you mention, do any of them have 3 bolts on the magnet, or are they the later type with no bolts?

Also, your silver speaker on the RP25A is most likely a Celestion - have a close look at the board that holds the input terminals and you should see "Celestion" written there...

Once you've got back with the details, I'll be able to add them to the stats, along with details of a few more that I've recently seen or purchased... I'm especially interested in your subjective comments, which, now that the pattern is emerging, is probably the next logical question - but that's another thread

Thanks again,

Mark
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 8:52 am   #24
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Default Re: Hacker Speaker Survey

Hello Mark
You are right about the RP25A s/n 57394 having a Celestion speaker, never noticed the makers name on the terminal strip before.
The RP35 s/n 09784 has a magnet with three bolts whereas the RP37A s/n 26568 and Rp25 s/n 05711 have no bolts.
I hope this information is useful.

Robin
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 8:43 pm   #25
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Hi Robin,

Thanks for the update - and don't worry; that "Celestion" label is easily missed

Taking your info, plus some more recent purchases and other sets that I've seen or fixed since the last update:

Quote:
  • Goodmans (3 bolts): 26 (3 in RP10, 9 in RP18, 6 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30, 1 in Jonster's AM Herald unnumbered - probably RP30, 1 in SW Herald RP31SW, 2 in Marine Herald RP32, 2 in Herald RP35, 1 in Helmsman RP36)
  • Goodmans (no bolts): 16 (2 in Sovereign RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30*, 5 in AM Herald RP35, 3 in Helmsman RP36, 3 in VHF Herald RP37, 1 in VHF Herald RP37A, 1 in Hunter RP38)
  • Celestion (silver frame): 8 (3 in Sovereign RP25, 2 in RP25A, 1 in RP25B, 2 in VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Celestion (black frame): 5 (4 in Sovereign RP25B, 1 in VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (large magnet): 3 (VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (small magnet): 2 (Hunter RP38A)

* The AM Herald RP30 having a no-bolt Goodmans seems a bit anomalous, but this set is incomplete, and it's possibly not the original speaker. The impedance might be a clue - it should be 30 ohms, but so far I've only seen the newer Goodmans in 15 ohm form. More when it arrives...
So this shows up an inconsistency - your RP37A has a Goodmans speaker, which goes against the conclusions so far. This suggests that your speaker might not be the original model - RP37As should have left the factory with Celestion or large-magnet Elacs. But as you seem to prefer the Goodmans to the Celestion, this sounds like a good result

As before, the latest version of the conclusions in light of new data - not only from here, but from service manuals (thanks, Paul!), pictures on websites, etc. Changes in bold:
  1. The Goodmans speaker was the "general purpose" model that was used in most models. It is available in two versions: the earlier version had 3 bolts, later ones don't, and it's available in 15 ohm and 30 ohm versions.
  2. The large magnet Elac was only fitted to RP37A VHF Heralds.
  3. The Celestions were only fitted to later RP25 Sovereigns and VHF Heralds (perhaps only the RP37A, but more input welcome). Later versions had a black chassis.
  4. An RP25 might have an early Goodmans with bolts, the later Goodmans sans bolts, or a Celestion! I presume it depends on serial number, along with the usual production variances - trying to drill down further might be going too far
  5. RP25As and Bs should have the Celestion speaker... There's every chance (but no guarantee) that speakers in the RP25B sets will have a black frame.
  6. The change from early to late Goodmans speakers that occurred during the life of the RP25 is also seen in the AM Herald RP35 and contemporaries. This change is close to the change from germanium to silicon AM IF panels.
  7. Finally, the Elac with the small magnet and gold-coloured frame/magnet was fitted to RP38A Hunters, and possibly later models throughout the 1970s (The Sovereign III family (Black Knight, Super Sovereign, etc) used a smaller 5 by 7" speaker, and I've no idea who makes that. From a picture of a Sovereign IV, it looks like an Elac, but it's hard to be sure).

Thanks again,

Mark
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 12:16 am   #26
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Default Re: Hacker Speaker Survey

Another sample-

RP37A VHF Herald 31084

Elac Speaker
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 9:50 pm   #27
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Default Re: Hacker Speaker Survey

hi i just picked up a hunter rp38 and the speaker is a grey metal frame with
goodmans loudspeakers ltd made in england on a shiny label stuck to the magnet
my super sovereign's speaker has a black frame with a frame around the magnet alas no markings probably the sticker fell off or something.sounds nice though
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Old 19th Aug 2010, 3:21 pm   #28
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Hi, I have a Sovereign 111 which has a large black speaker. At the time I asked Hacker its make and I was told Peerless.
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Old 19th Aug 2010, 9:22 pm   #29
mhennessy
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Default Re: Hacker Speaker Survey

Thanks Chris - I've also seen a couple more VHF Heralds with that Elac...

Quote:
  • Early Goodmans (3 bolts): 26 (3 in RP10, 9 in RP18, 6 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30, 1 in Jonster's AM Herald unnumbered - probably RP30, 1 in SW Herald RP31SW, 2 in Marine Herald RP32, 2 in Herald RP35, 1 in Helmsman RP36)
  • Later Goodmans (no bolts): 15 (2 in Sovereign RP25, 5 in AM Herald RP35, 3 in Helmsman RP36, 3 in VHF Herald RP37, 1 in VHF Herald RP37A, 1 in Hunter RP38)
  • Early Celestion (silver frame): 8 (3 in Sovereign RP25, 2 in RP25A, 1 in RP25B, 2 in VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Later Celestion (black frame): 5 (4 in Sovereign RP25B, 1 in VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (large magnet): 7 (VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (small magnet): 2 (Hunter RP38A)

* Having collected my AM Herald RP30 with a no-bolt Goodmans, it is actually incorrect - this set has the front and rear panels from a later RP35 Herald (yes, they are slightly different), and the speaker came with them! It's 15 ohms, so wrong for this set. However, that's the least of its problems!
Conclusions, once again refined from new data. Changes in bold:
  1. The Goodmans speaker was the "general purpose" model that was used in most models. It is available in two versions: the earlier version had 3 bolts and were 15 or 30 ohms, later ones have no bolts and were 15 ohms.
  2. The large magnet Elac was only fitted to RP37A VHF Heralds.
  3. The Celestions were only fitted to later RP25 Sovereigns and VHF Heralds (perhaps only the RP37A, but more input welcome). Later versions had a black chassis.
  4. An RP25 might have an early 15 ohm Goodmans with bolts, the later Goodmans sans bolts, or a Celestion!
  5. RP25As and Bs should have the Celestion speaker... There's every chance (but no guarantee) that speakers in the RP25B sets will have a black frame.
  6. The change from early to late Goodmans speakers that occurred during the life of the RP25 is also seen in the AM Herald RP35 and contemporaries. This change is close to the change from germanium to silicon AM IF panels. The handle also changed sometime around here.
  7. The Elac with the small magnet and gold-coloured frame/magnet in 15 ohm form was fitted to RP38A Hunters. Early RP38 Hunters used the later Goodmans.
  8. The Sovereign III family (Black Knight, Super Sovereign, etc) used a smaller 5 by 7" speaker, which has no identifying labels or markings but at the time, Hacker told forum member "safria17" that is was made by Peerless. The Sovereign IV and RPC1 marked a return to the 5" by 8" Elac, this time in 4 ohm form. Other smaller sets from this time used Philips and Audax speakers.
  9. For the sake of completeness, the Mini-Herald, Autocrat, Democrat and Harrier models used 4" by 6" speakers, made by Goodmans, Celestion and possible Elac.

Special thanks to Safria17 - that's really useful information

Mark
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Old 19th Aug 2010, 9:25 pm   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darren brown View Post
hi i just picked up a hunter rp38 and the speaker is a grey metal frame with goodmans loudspeakers ltd made in england on a shiny label stuck to the magnet
Thanks Darren - I did suspect this was the case with the early non-A model, but nice to have it confirmed
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Old 21st Aug 2010, 9:41 pm   #31
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hi mark.
the rp 38 sounds real nice.
sorry to add to the confusion but yesterday i picked up a rp72mb sovereign III
with a large black speaker marked 4 ohms.
twinned with my rp75's speaker no markings im afraid

regards darren
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Old 22nd Aug 2010, 9:49 am   #32
mhennessy
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Hi Darren,

Yes, that fits in with point 8 above. I've got 4 of them and none of them have any kind of markings. Sound good though, despite having a slightly smaller cone area than the others. The one I measures resonates at 93Hz - the later Goodmans is more like 110Hz IIRC.

I'm not collecting numbers on the Sov III family because they all had the same speaker - unless anyone knows differently?
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 4:24 pm   #33
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Default Re: Hacker Speaker Survey

Picked up an RP38A today, has an Elac speaker in it. If you want any further info just let me know...

Josh.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 5:15 pm   #34
mhennessy
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Thanks Josh - I've just taken delivery of a rather nice RP38 (non A, single tone control). It has an Elac speaker as well which looks identical to the later ones like you've probably got, only the "basket" is painted grey. It's marked 58HE/146, just like the later ones...

So, another conclusion to add to the list: Earlier RP38s had the standard no-bolt Goodmans, later ones had the Elac, but the earlier examples of this unit had a painted chassis.

Darren, just out of interest, what is the serial number of your RP38 with a Goodmans unit?

Thanks all,

Mark
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Old 11th Sep 2010, 9:14 pm   #35
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hi mark the serial number of my rp38 is 08299. assuming that it is the number
stamped onto the alluminium top right of the set,forgive me im still learning

regards darren
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Old 11th Sep 2010, 9:47 pm   #36
mhennessy
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Yup - that's right. My RP38 is 11546, somewhat later than yours...

(If you don't already know about it, there's a dedicated Hacker group here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackerradiogroup/ - it's a useful compliment to this site, and full of useful resources. You'll find a database of Hacker serial numbers, and you might like to add your set to this...)

Cheers,

Mark
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Old 16th Sep 2010, 10:14 pm   #37
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hi mark

thanks for the info i will go and have a look at the hacker site

cheers

darren
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Old 13th Oct 2010, 12:54 pm   #38
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The Hacker on the table in front of me (not mine!):

Sovereign II - (serial 41921? sticker on the turntable underneath)
Goodmans speaker, three large screw heads on magnet, grey paint frame.
I don't think the bass is very good for such a monster.

Alan.
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Old 15th Oct 2010, 12:30 am   #39
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Hi Alan,

I suspect that's not the original speaker. Looking at the database on the Yahoo Hacker group, that serial number is either late RP25 or early RP25A - meaning that either the later Goodmans speaker with no bolts should have been fitted, or, more likely, a silver Celestion. I've got two RP25s with earlier serial numbers (27794, 28560) that have the later Goodmans speaker, and my early RP25 with your speaker is 08259.

For what it's worth, all 3 of my Celestion speakers have rubbing voicecoils to varying degrees. Are they less reliable than the Goodmans? I've got many of the Goodmans speakers in all versions, and they all work perfectly.

Regarding the bass, it's worth running through the amplifier checks in the service manual, which will eliminate any problems with aged capacitors. But, Hacker didn't attempt to produce a bloated bass end, preferring instead to achieve a smooth, non-resonant sound that was more akin to hi-fi (obviously not as extended). That contrasts sharply with the Grundig set I'm working on at the moment, where the excessive amounts of bass boost combine with the plastic case to produce a bass-heavy sound that is initially impressive, and fine for background use, but quickly becomes tiring when listened to critically.

Also, check the impedance - if it came from an earlier set (e.g. RP10, RP18, RP30/31/32), it might be 30 ohms.

Thanks,

Mark
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Old 8th Nov 2010, 9:06 pm   #40
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Default Re: Hacker Speaker Survey

Not sure if you're still collecting speaker info, but here's the gen on my newly-acquired RP-38a:

Serial number (this is the one physically stamped into the metal on the underside of the tuner assembly at the top of the radio, right?): 45208 (mains adaptor, separate bass/treble controls)

Speaker make - Elac

Do you need any more info?
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