HMV 1851 Restoration

[murphyv310]

Hello.
I am starting out on the biggest restoration project that I have done since I started collecting. The set came up from "Gordieland" and originally was from "Mikeymushradio".
It is going to be a protracted job, the cabinet is in a well eaten condition by woodworm although some work has been carried out in a secret location in "Geordieland" to a high standard.
The cabinet floor had been totally eaten away as had a corner of the cabinet, the Radio panel is well gone but a new one is under construction, all the holes have been treated with woodworm killer although I think the set is clear but you cannot take chances. Every hole will be filled with a 70/30 mix of PVA and water, this will build up the strength of the cabinet and once this is done any re-veneering will be tackled along with new French polishing.
The Speaker baffle is missing so a new baffle will be made, this is curved so it will be made of ply soaked in water and then shaped, cut out and the cleaned and painted grille tacked to the baffle it can then be easily passed through the front of the cabinet and screwed in place.
Ideally another cabinet would be the answer, but its not likely.
Electrically although dusty and a little rusty the electronics are untouched with no signs of any repairs, the set is a really old design using pre-war techniques very surprising for a set made in 1951. A quick check on the mains transformer confirmed the mains derived EHT section is fine so please watch this space. I will put on some photos as soon as possible.
Cheers.
Trevor

[murphyv310]

Hi.
Here are a few more pics, you may be able to see the woodworm holes, the veiw from the top and all the rubbish where the speaker should be!
Trevor

[Mikeymushradio]

Trevor, You are a very brave man! i dont mind a few worm holes but that was basically holes surrounded by a little dusty plywood...the power chassis fell onto the road when i tried to put it in the car along with 2 of the castors....... having got it home i started looking at it and apart from the obvious structural problems with the cabinet i noticed the speaker baffle was well worm eaten,i got hold of the speaker to test how much strength was left in the remaining wood and it came off in my hands,and the remaining baffle crumbled to dust on the floor!

However i see a certain amount of Geordie magic has already taken place........That man is a whizz with wood....... and no doubt the restoration will continue now it is with you,i look forward to watching the progress.

Good news about the mains transformer,hopefully there are no major problems with the electronics it does look fairly unmolested so might respond to recapping and a general clean/overhaul.

Good luck with the project and look forward to watching the transformation.
Mike

[ppppenguin]

Looks like you're doing a great job. Whether an 1851 really deserves that sort of love is another matter.

As Gerry sometimes says: "It's only the wodworm holding hands that's keeping it together".

[murphyv310]

Originally Posted by Mikeymushradio

However i see a certain amount of Geordie magic has already taken place........That man is a whizz with wood....... and no doubt the restoration will continue now it is with you,i look forward to watching the progress.

Good news about the mains transformer,hopefully there are no major problems with the electronics it does look fairly unmolested so might respond to recapping and a general clean/overhaul.

Good luck with the project and look forward to watching the transformation.
Mike

Yes.
Our Geordie friend can really work magic with wood, I am sure this set has been out of use since the late fifties and as you say untouched so i'm sure will work eventually, I just wonder if any other 1851's survive as its really quite an old design although I believe they worked OK, definately dated though even in 1948 when it came out, possibly the nearest I will get to owning a prewar set. Looking forward to cracking on with it. I will need to spend time though doing a training course I am doing for a new career.
Thanks Mike.
Cheers
Trevor

[ppppenguin]

Originally Posted by murphyv310

... I just wonder if any other 1851's survive ...

There's a possible 1851 in the Birmingham Science Museum's reserve collection.
http://www.405-line.tv/phpBB3/viewto...t=400&start=45

Scroll down to find the picture.

[murphyv310]

Originally Posted by ppppenguin

There's a possible 1851 in the Birmingham Science Museum's reserve collection.
http://www.405-line.tv/phpBB3/viewto...t=400&start=45

Scroll down to find the picture.

Hi Jeffrey.
Well spotted that man!
Sure looks in better condition than mine, do you think they would notice if I swapped over the cabinet?
Certainly another cabinet would be the easy answer but I think I would have to be really lucky to find one.
Cheers
Trevor

[Duke_Nukem]

I like the pic showing the tube, the poor little scan coils look almost lost !

...definately dated though even in 1948 when it came out...

Have you anything that helps date the set ? The earliest date I have been able to find was late '49 but that is from a very limited selection of period publications.

TTFN,
Jon

[chipp1968]

Its amazing what worms will do when they get together .Damp and airless storage makes things worse .I think they like to feel the temperature changes of the season , makes them friskier
Wellworth the effort though if you have the time to do it properly .I think its a handsome set with the doors to upper section .I like it ,looks quality.

[murphyv310]

Originally Posted by Duke_Nukem

I like the pic showing the tube, the poor little scan coils look almost lost !



Have you anything that helps date the set ? The earliest date I have been able to find was late '49 but that is from a very limited selection of period publications.

TTFN,
Jon

Hi Jon
Mine is actually a "3851" Channel 2 version and from the caps about Nov 51 so It must be one of the last. I would be interested to find out how many were actually sold, not many I would think.
Iv'e done a little more on the cabinet today and am removing the CRT to repair one of the CRT supports as it is in rotting wood, I will put a metal strip above the CRT and some metal eyes for the springs that are on the webbing to hold the CRT. The CRT mask and glass can be washed down before refitting. I may do this tonight. I have injected PVA into the woodworm holes on the top lid and the right hand cabinet side, so things are progressing, I did find a pile of wood dust under the lid today that wasn't there last night so I wonder if the brs are still active although I treated the wood yesterday.
Trevor

[murphyv310]

Hi.
Before I remove the CRT, I would like to know how fragile these 15 inch pyrex tubes are.
This is the biggest round crt I have come across so far but I am unsure of the strength of them.
Trevor

[ppppenguin]

What worries me about these pyrex CRTs is the number of bubbles in the glass. Each one is a potential stress site where an implosion could start. Back in 1986 when we were selecting a 6/6 for rebuilding we chose the least blemished glass.

As a devout coward I would certainly use eye protection, preferably a full face shield. I'd also wear gloves where possible. But then I'd do all that for any very old CRT. I'd probably not take any special measures with rectangular CRTs but my glasses will stop most direct hits to my eyes.

I'll do without the lead lined underpants

[Heatercathodeshort]

Hello Trevor,
What a cracking set! I do like these large HMV consoles that were produced in the 40's. A Pre war circuit with just later valves. The picture will be incredible. Very bright with high contrast if the aluminised TA15 crt is good. [They usually are]
There seems to be something about the animal glue that EMI employed in the manufacture of their cabinets. I suspect it may have been made in house like most of their products. I cleared a number of console sets many years ago from a dry loft. One was an HMV 1811 12" console that was ridden with woodworm and completely collapsed when I moved it. I salvaged the chassis and crt but the cabinet was nothing but dust. The other 7 sets were completely clear of woodworm.
One saving grace with woodworm infected sets is that the chassis and components are usually in excellent condition due to dry storage. Wood worm simply hate dampness.
As far as the Pyrex EMI tubes are concerned, I would say that they are very robust.
Of course take precautions due to the age of the glass etc but I think you will be ok. They were made in moulded sections and then 'welded' together. I used to watch my mate regun them and build up a stepped glass joint on the lathe. Incredible! A great friend and work colleague now sadly no longer with us. Good luck with that set. I have recently acquired an earlier HMV 15" model with a very interesting history. Its showing very promising results at the moment so should have an interesting write up by Christmas. Its EHT is mains derived of course and a low value of only 4kv. Its very bright. Quite astonishing. Regards, John.

[chipp1968]

"woodworm simply hate dampness"
John ,Im afraid you are completely wrong with this statement . There are different types of woodworm and some types thrive in damp situations . you are more likely to find worm in this situation than dry . But there are also woodworm that like dry situations . I see this alot with my work .

[TNC]

Trevor,

What great news that you are restoring a 1851...I will be watching closely as I have an HMV 2851 (the Birmingham version of the 1851) also in a pretty sad state and have been trying to pluck up the courage to make a start. Your posting may be inspirational!

One or two Forum Members may recall the saga about the TA15 in my set...I have attached a .jpg...despite it's severe damage Philippe of RACS was optimistic he could rebuild it...to cut a long story short, he managed to a repair it only for the entire assembly to be subsequently accidentally smashed in his works! On and off, I have been looking for a replacement for the last couple of years but with no luck! I guess I will end up making a substitution - I have been offered a CRM151 but haven't got the nuclear fall-out suit I think I may need when handling that big beast!

Apart from that disaster the set is in reasonable condition and luckily it has no worm. The other slight difficulty is that some clown didn't work out how to remove the radio so forced it out with the result that a number of the screw-mounts that are soldered to the fascia have been fractured at the solder joint and need re-soldering...which won't help the original paint finish.

The loudspeaker panel is there so if you need a pattern I would be pleased to help with its loan.

I wish you the best with the work and will be cheering you on.

atb
Trevor.

[Sean Williams]

Following a short interlude we now return you to the ongoing saga of restoring a well munched HMV........

[Sean Williams]

TV Den has one of these in Radiogram format as well....

[murphyv310]

Hi
A late finish last night and an early start! I have now injected a lot of PVA into various parts of the set and already the weak wood now feels much stronger, the set is lying on its front and the worm holes on the rear of the front are bathing in pools of PVA slightly diluted you can see air bubbles slowly appearing from the worm holes and the pools slowly being drained into the holes!
I think the easiest way to remove the crt is with the set on its front.
Watch this space.
Trevor

[tvden]

Originally Posted by Sean Williams

TV Den has one of these in Radiogram format as well....

Mine might be slightly larger

[murphyv310]

Hello.
I've had about 3 hours today to work on the set, The speaker grille and baffle board were fitted along with the speaker, some painting was done and its looking quite well so far.
Now there is not too much more to do to the cabinet, all I need to do now is fill some more worm holes, fit the Radio board when it comes back from Geordie land and then veneer and polish. I would think I will be able to get on with the electronics perhaps at the weekend.
I am well pleased so far.
Cheers
Trevor