UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Telephony and Telecomms

Notices

Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 1:05 pm   #1
Eidolon
Hexode
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Worcester, Worcs, UK.
Posts: 257
Default Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

I can;t say I'm very hapy with the news that BT are over the next 3 yrs going to phase out all the current phone line system, and replace them with Voip system, in wihch the phones apparently have to be plugged into routers.

This is going to be an utter nightmare for me, my router and landline cabling are in compltey different places, and rewiring it all, involving pulling up carpets etc is going to be a nightmare that will cost me a fair bit of money by the looks of it.

At the moment I'm having difficulty finding tecnical information on how all of this is supposed to work.
If it's a case of plugging the phones directly into the routers standard sockets, then I simply don't have a sufficient number of ports on the router. Having the phones connected will mean disconnecting wired internet devices.

But also, I am concerned about the effect on my retro phones, which I don't want to be forced to give up.
I have a dialer phone from around 1980 in the front sitting room. I can't make outgoings from it, but incomings work just fine.
In my attic room, I have a Bell Hideaway phone, also from 1980, from America, operating via an adaptor.
If I can't keep these two phones working, I'm going to be extremely unhappy.

BT just don;t seem to have considered the disruption and costs that this will cause for people, but they haven't been forthcoming with technical details on how all of this works.
Eidolon is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 1:26 pm   #2
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

I don't think the very small number of POTS (Plain Old Telephone System) users that know why they don't want to change will sway BT at all. Most minorities get special treatment (and why not?). At least they should make an NTE5 (the incoming box) to proper 'phones interface with battery backup the default. Then all existing systems will work.
 
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 1:39 pm   #3
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 25,188
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Most people will need a new router with a phone socket in order to support this. Presumably this will be funded by BT.

Any internal phone wiring will just connect to the router phone socket rather than the NTE socket.

The router phone interface is nothing to do with the RJ45 Ethernet sockets found on almost all routers.
paulsherwin is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 2:00 pm   #4
wireman
Hexode
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 406
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

According to one newspaper "Under guidelines laid down by Ofcom, BT must ensure customers can contact emergency services in a power cut that lasts more than an hour".
There are still people with no power many days after the recent strorm.
wireman is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 2:06 pm   #5
wireman
Hexode
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 406
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

I hardly know where to start:

https://www.openreach.com/upgrading-...al-phone-lines

Copper wires seem far more future proof than any of the generations of digital services BT has provided.
wireman is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 2:24 pm   #6
Keith956
Heptode
 
Keith956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 513
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

The change is already happening for new users. A friend moved recently and took out a contract with BT for phone and broadband; it was an old house so there was a pre-existing master socket.

When the router arrived I plugged it in to one socket of a microfilter that was already there, and the internet worked fine. But the phone, plugged into the other socket, refused to work (it was a BT phone too).

On the mobile to BT and the first thing they asked was 'Have you plugged the phone into the green socket?' Duh? Oh yes there is a green phone socket on the router! Tried that as they said and the phone worked fine.

Of course there was nothing in the paperwork they'd sent to indicate that the line would now only work via the router, which was a bit strange and I can imagine that BT will be getting quite a few 'it doesn't work' calls...
Keith956 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 2:38 pm   #7
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 12,182
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Someone I know last week moved into a new-build house which has fibre-to-the-premises; they chose to go with Vodafone as their broadband-provider and the WiFi router that was delivered has a couple of small blanking-plugs on the back next to the RJ45s - both marked "This port is not in use" but which, when levered-out, reveals an old-style BT line-jack and along the top edge of the case are green status-lights marked "Internet", "Phone" and "WiFi" so it's obvious what the plan would be.

They don't have an analog phone to try plugging into this, and neither do I.
__________________
"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream" -Edgar Allan Poe.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 2:43 pm   #8
Vintage Engr
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 527
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

BT are unable to supply broadband to me, as I'm in an isolated position, and over 8Km from the exchange. So I have a POTS landline (at exhorbitant cost!) and my broadband is provided by a specialist long-haul wireless provider.
For the past few days, after the storm the broadband system (and any users of VOIP on it) was down. I thus relied in the good old copper-based POTS...

Mobile signals here are flaky, so when the BT wired system is finally dispensed with, what will people like myself do in an emergency, & possibly with no power?

Technically of course its progress...


David.
Vintage Engr is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 3:32 pm   #9
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 25,188
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Remember that you can make calls to the emergency services using any available network - it doesn't have to be your own. In fact, the phone doesn't even need to have a SIM in it.

My guess is that BT will try to get around the '999 in a power cut' regulatory requirement by handing out cheap SIM-free phones to anyone who wants one.
paulsherwin is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 3:48 pm   #10
Craig Sawyers
Dekatron
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 4,244
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

OK - there is a power cut, or a digital fault. Then you discover that the mobile they have provided has run out of charge. While someone has a stroke or heart attack.

Craig
__________________
Doomed for a certain term to walk the night
Craig Sawyers is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 3:52 pm   #11
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 25,188
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Yes, I'm certainly not defending it as a full solution. This is a service downgrade.
paulsherwin is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 4:00 pm   #12
fetteler
Octode
 
fetteler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 1,223
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

We have no mobile signal here where we live so using a mobile phone (even a fully charged one!) as an emergency back up is a complete non starter for us.

Steve.
__________________
Those who lack imagination cannot imagine what is lacking...
fetteler is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 4:00 pm   #13
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 12,674
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post
OK - there is a power cut, or a digital fault. Then you discover that the mobile they have provided has run out of charge. While someone has a stroke or heart attack
If I had one specifically for emergency use (which I do) I would make sure that the battery is always charged and check that the 'phone functions on a regular basis.

Same with an emergency torch.

BT or whoever will do what they're are going to do and the result will be the result.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 4:08 pm   #14
cmjones01
Nonode
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland and Cambridge, UK
Posts: 2,435
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

This change has already happened to us here in Poland, where landline phone services are provided by Orange. They told us that at the end of October the copper service was being discontinued, and we arranged to have fibre installed. The fibre goes in to the back of the Orange router, and our "landline" phone is connected to that router. It also provides Ethernet connections for internet and to the "cable TV" box that they also provide. The whole shebang - landline phone, internet and TV - comes down the fibre.

In the case of a power cut we'd have no phone other than mobiles.

Chris
__________________
What's going on in the workshop? http://martin-jones.com/
cmjones01 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 4:37 pm   #15
theredhouseinn
Pentode
 
theredhouseinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Kelvedon, Essex, UK.
Posts: 238
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Get a UPS and plug the router into it, all our ipads and laptops work in a power cut, it also shuts down my desktop. My 60's dial phone also works in a power cut, I suppose that will become redundant when they chop the copper wires.
John.
theredhouseinn is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 6:40 pm   #16
dagskarlsen
Heptode
 
dagskarlsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hakadal, Norway
Posts: 611
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Welcome after, this is almoast finished here in Norway, and the result is in real life that almoast everybody has skipped the phone and does only have the mobile. I had ip telphony for some years, and changed to another company twice because of trouble with the rights to deliver the voip service to a reasonable cost.
Regarding security with a powerdown in the area, it did not work for more than 4 hours.

We have by now a combination of foreign VOIP service (callcentric.com) and a mobil with adapter for incomming calls. The adapter works OK with a pulse to tone adapter on it.

A unit that does the job and accepts both rotary and touchh tone may be x-link BT. Connects to your mobile via bluetooth just as the handsfree in a car, but its not handsfree it has a telephone jack for regular phones. ( www.myxlink.com )

You may need a master socket (your old one) to get divided ringing as often used in UK.
dagskarlsen is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2021, 11:20 am   #17
Eidolon
Hexode
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Worcester, Worcs, UK.
Posts: 257
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmjones01 View Post
This change has already happened to us here in Poland, where landline phone services are provided by Orange. They told us that at the end of October the copper service was being discontinued, and we arranged to have fibre installed. The fibre goes in to the back of the Orange router, and our "landline" phone is connected to that router. It also provides Ethernet connections for internet and to the "cable TV" box that they also provide. The whole shebang - landline phone, internet and TV - comes down the fibre.

In the case of a power cut we'd have no phone other than mobiles.

Chris
So do the routers come with extra sockets now to facilitae the phone lines too? Getting the cables from my phones to the router will be a nightmare, without any doubt
Eidolon is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2021, 11:38 am   #18
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 5,863
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

I have no personal experience (still being purely on copper), but it would appear so from what has been said before.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2021, 11:39 am   #19
rambo1152
Dekatron
 
rambo1152's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 3,553
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon View Post
So do the routers come with extra sockets now to facilitae the phone lines too? Getting the cables from my phones to the router will be a nightmare, without any doubt
Yes, that's the way things are going.

You can get DECT wireless phone jacks to make your corded phones cordless, but vintage ones will still need to have pulse to tone conversion done separately.
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
rambo1152 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2021, 6:59 am   #20
dagskarlsen
Heptode
 
dagskarlsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hakadal, Norway
Posts: 611
Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

Chris
Quote:

So do the routers come with extra sockets now to facilitae the phone lines too? Getting the cables from my phones to the router will be a nightmare, without any doubt
I did change (port the number) to another operator and bought an ATA that I plugged in to an Ethernet outlet where it was suitable.
I used https://zadarma.com/en/ as the operator, and bought a PAP2 ATA on ebay. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/28325177040...YAAOSwrk1c2j0H) Easy to set up, but... not handling rotary phones, so I had to ad a pulse-tone adapter.
Not sure but toady I would probably have chosen an adapter that accepts rotary, but maybe those are more difficult to set up. Atleast I have an Utstarcom and it works great, but the setup was a nightmare ...

More about ATAS here: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/f...?topic=20386.0
dagskarlsen is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 4:39 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.