Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

FRANK.C · 16th Jan 2021, 9:46 pm

This is my latest standards converter. It is programmable so can generate a range of standards from a 625 line input. It also comes with a programmable modulator.
The converter can generate a standard with any number of lines from 16 to 830 and any number of active lines(lines with picture content) between 8 and 800.
It can generate field rates of 25, 30, 50 and 60 Hz. 50 and 60 Hz are interlaced. It has selectable sync height from 20 to 50% in 5% steps. The length of the front porch, horizontal sync pulse, back porch and broad pulse are all programmable. The number of broad pulses can be in the range of 1 to 50. The left and right of the picture can be cropped independently. There is also a method of moving the picture vertically.

The modulator uses two MC44BS373. It covers 30 to 900 MHz in 5 ranges. The frequency step size is dependant on range.
It can do negative video and FM sound or positive video and AM sound.
It can do video/ audio carrier separations of 4.5, 5.5, 6.0 and 6.5 MHz or if in positive video and AM sound mode the video and sound carriers can be set independently.

Both the converter and modulator can be easily programmed by using the two control knobs.

Some basic knowledge of the standard you want to generate is needed.
I have tested it myself and can confirm it is not idiot proof. It is possible to enter nonsensical settings in such a case it will just sit there not producing any output.

I have tested it on 405, 819, 625 and 525 lines. That's as far as my collection of TV's goes. Anything outside those have not been tested but should work.

All information needed to build one is on the Hedghog PSC webpage or if you would like one built forum member Freya will supply them.

A link to a description of the menu is here

Frank

FRANK.C · 16th Jan 2021, 9:50 pm

Just to add a few photos of it at work.

The first 3 photos below are of 405 lines. They are of the same test card but by changing the active lines, crop and vertical shift it can be displayed in different ways.
The next photo is the Sony TV displaying a 819 line picture.
The photo of the monitor displaying test card F is a 647 line picture. This is just to make the point it can generate any number of lines not just set standards. I expect running the monitor at 647 lines wasn't great or it but I didn't leave it running long.

Frank

dragonser · 17th Jan 2021, 7:06 am

Hi,
that looks very impressive, thank you for all the work and time you have put in.

FRANK.C · 17th Jan 2021, 12:00 pm

Thanks Peter
Frank

17th Jan 2021, 2:11 pm

I see you use PCBway, they do manufacture too, I wonder what they would charge for a few, say 10 or so.

FRANK.C · 17th Jan 2021, 3:07 pm

That's something I looked into for the first Hedghog. It was very expensive at that time.

Frank

17th Jan 2021, 4:33 pm

Thank you for the insight, I was tempted for one of our little small run boards, I will keep them in house now. And thanks for making it "open source" too.

ChristianFletcher · 17th Jan 2021, 5:38 pm

That is awesome thanks for your hard work

Regards Chris

FRANK.C · 17th Jan 2021, 8:59 pm

Thanks Merlin and Chris.
It did take a while to do but was enjoyable, well in-between the times that I was pulling my hair out anyways

Frank

murphyv310 · 17th Jan 2021, 11:04 pm

Well done Frank.
Will get one when I can rustle up the money.
It's an impressive design and very very useful.

Duke_Nukem · 18th Jan 2021, 8:52 am

Excellent !

Had a quick look at the manual, there is a pixels offset left and right, does that mean I can crop? Freeview channels often send a widescreen stream and put black bars left/right so if you display on a 4:3 set the picture looks shrunk horizontally, hoping you can crop off those black bars.

Like the idea of presets too.

TTFN,
Jon

jhalphen · 18th Jan 2021, 1:37 pm

Good day to all,

@ Frank C. : Wow ! amazing achievement.
Would the software accept a 720p/50 VGA signal providing a hardware interface could be built to input a VGA signal to your composite input ?
Only the Y channel would be needed.

Over here in France, there is a growing interest to see what "true 819 line resolution" looked like. Because of HDMI/HDCP licensing issues, this input format is impossible, but VGA is.

Your product, as is :
Is there a pricing for a built unit ?
Does forum member Freya have a web site ?

Best Regards
jhalphen
Paris/France

FRANK.C · 18th Jan 2021, 6:02 pm

Thanks Trevor

Thanks Jon
You are correct you can crop the bars out. You can even do some extreme cropping

see photos below of a cropped test card C.
The second photo is about the limit. Why anyone would want crop to that extent I have no idea.

Thanks Jerome
It is not able to accept a VGA signal just composite. VGA is something that I haven't looked at.

I don't build or sell any so I have no idea of cost.
Forum member Freya does build them he should be able to let you know the cost. I don't think he has a web site.

Frank

Duke_Nukem · 19th Jan 2021, 12:26 am

Thanks Frank,

The crop, combined with presets, will make it so much easier to watch freeview - until now the only option was to record program, edit to remove black bars, then re-encode.

TTFN,
Jon

Graham G3ZVT · 19th Jan 2021, 3:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhalphen

Would the software accept a 720p/50 VGA signal providing a hardware interface could be built to input a VGA signal to your composite input ?
Only the Y channel would be needed.

Over here in France, there is a growing interest to see what "true 819 line resolution" looked like. Because of HDMI/HDCP licensing issues, this input format is impossible, but VGA is.

You don't need a system converter to do that, you can get an 819 line monochrome signal directly from the VGA port of a computer graphics card.
by using a programme called WinModelines.

Here is my system working with a Windows 10 computer with an ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT card. These are available for about 10 Euros on ebay, and you only need to build a modulator.

https://youtu.be/ahzdx4KgWBg

I just tried an 819 line modeline which came from Semir_DE Linux project
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=167674
(It's much simpler with Windows)
and I get this result on my 405 line set, the two side-by-side pictures exactly as we got the French Sporadic-E interference in the 1960s!

FRANK.C · 19th Jan 2021, 2:49 pm

Hi Jon
The Hedghog and Hedghog II can crop the bars out too. The amount they crop is set and cant be adjusted like the Hedghog PSC.

Hi Graham
The PC method looks to give good results. I haven't tried it yet. Hopefully one day I will get around to it.

Frank

hamman1968 · 4th May 2021, 6:27 pm

How much is the Hedghog PSC?

Courtney Louise · 11th May 2021, 11:50 am

Has anyone tried running a vintage home computer through a hedgehog? I wanted to run my Amiga's composite output to it but it refuses to sync.

Courtney Louise · 11th May 2021, 11:53 am

Hi guys. I have been trying to use my old Amiga 500's composite out to feed my hedgehog into my TV22 but it won't sync. Any ideas?

Lloyd 1985 · 11th May 2021, 1:30 pm

I have tried running an old Nintendo Entertainment system through mine, and it refuses to sync, I also tried on the Aurora and that also refused to sync, so I guess there is something a bit rubbish about the signals these types of old computers create, a normal TV copes with it fine, but standards converters do t like it!

Regards
Lloyd

16th Jan 2021, 9:46 pm	#1
FRANK.C Heptode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Roscommon, Ireland Posts: 722	Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter This is my latest standards converter. It is programmable so can generate a range of standards from a 625 line input. It also comes with a programmable modulator. The converter can generate a standard with any number of lines from 16 to 830 and any number of active lines(lines with picture content) between 8 and 800. It can generate field rates of 25, 30, 50 and 60 Hz. 50 and 60 Hz are interlaced. It has selectable sync height from 20 to 50% in 5% steps. The length of the front porch, horizontal sync pulse, back porch and broad pulse are all programmable. The number of broad pulses can be in the range of 1 to 50. The left and right of the picture can be cropped independently. There is also a method of moving the picture vertically. The modulator uses two MC44BS373. It covers 30 to 900 MHz in 5 ranges. The frequency step size is dependant on range. It can do negative video and FM sound or positive video and AM sound. It can do video/ audio carrier separations of 4.5, 5.5, 6.0 and 6.5 MHz or if in positive video and AM sound mode the video and sound carriers can be set independently. Both the converter and modulator can be easily programmed by using the two control knobs. Some basic knowledge of the standard you want to generate is needed. I have tested it myself and can confirm it is not idiot proof. It is possible to enter nonsensical settings in such a case it will just sit there not producing any output. I have tested it on 405, 819, 625 and 525 lines. That's as far as my collection of TV's goes. Anything outside those have not been tested but should work. All information needed to build one is on the Hedghog PSC webpage or if you would like one built forum member Freya will supply them. A link to a description of the menu is here Frank Attached Thumbnails __________________ www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

16th Jan 2021, 9:50 pm	#2
FRANK.C Heptode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Roscommon, Ireland Posts: 722	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Just to add a few photos of it at work. The first 3 photos below are of 405 lines. They are of the same test card but by changing the active lines, crop and vertical shift it can be displayed in different ways. The next photo is the Sony TV displaying a 819 line picture. The photo of the monitor displaying test card F is a 647 line picture. This is just to make the point it can generate any number of lines not just set standards. I expect running the monitor at 647 lines wasn't great or it but I didn't leave it running long. Frank Attached Thumbnails __________________ www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

17th Jan 2021, 7:06 am	#3
dragonser Heptode Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Carshalton, Surrey, UK. Posts: 728	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Hi, that looks very impressive, thank you for all the work and time you have put in. __________________ Regards Peter B

17th Jan 2021, 12:00 pm	#4
FRANK.C Heptode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Roscommon, Ireland Posts: 722	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Thanks Peter Frank __________________ www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

17th Jan 2021, 2:11 pm	#5
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter I see you use PCBway, they do manufacture too, I wonder what they would charge for a few, say 10 or so.

17th Jan 2021, 3:07 pm	#6
FRANK.C Heptode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Roscommon, Ireland Posts: 722	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter That's something I looked into for the first Hedghog. It was very expensive at that time. Frank __________________ www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

17th Jan 2021, 4:33 pm	#7
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Thank you for the insight, I was tempted for one of our little small run boards, I will keep them in house now. And thanks for making it "open source" too.

17th Jan 2021, 5:38 pm	#8
ChristianFletcher Heptode Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 900	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter That is awesome thanks for your hard work Regards Chris __________________ Every Silver Lining Has Its Cloud https://youtube.com/channel/UCvBpiuUUnErJlNBm6DWb3Ww

17th Jan 2021, 8:59 pm	#9
FRANK.C Heptode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Roscommon, Ireland Posts: 722	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Thanks Merlin and Chris. It did take a while to do but was enjoyable, well in-between the times that I was pulling my hair out anyways Frank __________________ www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

17th Jan 2021, 11:04 pm	#10
murphyv310 Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 5,388	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Well done Frank. Will get one when I can rustle up the money. It's an impressive design and very very useful. __________________ Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member

18th Jan 2021, 8:52 am	#11
Duke_Nukem Octode Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 1,260	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Excellent ! Had a quick look at the manual, there is a pixels offset left and right, does that mean I can crop? Freeview channels often send a widescreen stream and put black bars left/right so if you display on a 4:3 set the picture looks shrunk horizontally, hoping you can crop off those black bars. Like the idea of presets too. TTFN, Jon

18th Jan 2021, 1:37 pm	#12
jhalphen Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Paris, France Posts: 335	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Good day to all, @ Frank C. : Wow ! amazing achievement. Would the software accept a 720p/50 VGA signal providing a hardware interface could be built to input a VGA signal to your composite input ? Only the Y channel would be needed. Over here in France, there is a growing interest to see what "true 819 line resolution" looked like. Because of HDMI/HDCP licensing issues, this input format is impossible, but VGA is. Your product, as is : Is there a pricing for a built unit ? Does forum member Freya have a web site ? Best Regards jhalphen Paris/France

18th Jan 2021, 6:02 pm	#13
FRANK.C Heptode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Roscommon, Ireland Posts: 722	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Thanks Trevor Thanks Jon You are correct you can crop the bars out. You can even do some extreme cropping see photos below of a cropped test card C. The second photo is about the limit. Why anyone would want crop to that extent I have no idea. Thanks Jerome It is not able to accept a VGA signal just composite. VGA is something that I haven't looked at. I don't build or sell any so I have no idea of cost. Forum member Freya does build them he should be able to let you know the cost. I don't think he has a web site. Frank Attached Thumbnails __________________ www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

19th Jan 2021, 12:26 am	#14
Duke_Nukem Octode Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 1,260	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Thanks Frank, The crop, combined with presets, will make it so much easier to watch freeview - until now the only option was to record program, edit to remove black bars, then re-encode. TTFN, Jon

19th Jan 2021, 2:49 pm	#16
FRANK.C Heptode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Roscommon, Ireland Posts: 722	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Hi Jon The Hedghog and Hedghog II can crop the bars out too. The amount they crop is set and cant be adjusted like the Hedghog PSC. Hi Graham The PC method looks to give good results. I haven't tried it yet. Hopefully one day I will get around to it. Frank __________________ www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

4th May 2021, 6:27 pm	#17
hamman1968 Diode Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 4	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter How much is the Hedghog PSC?

11th May 2021, 11:50 am	#18
Courtney Louise Octode Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Nuneaton, Warwickshire. UK. Posts: 1,316	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter Has anyone tried running a vintage home computer through a hedgehog? I wanted to run my Amiga's composite output to it but it refuses to sync. __________________ *33, 45, 78, around and around they go...*

11th May 2021, 11:53 am	#19
Courtney Louise Octode Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Nuneaton, Warwickshire. UK. Posts: 1,316	Using vintage computer composite with Hedgehog II Hi guys. I have been trying to use my old Amiga 500's composite out to feed my hedgehog into my TV22 but it won't sync. Any ideas? __________________ *33, 45, 78, around and around they go...*

11th May 2021, 1:30 pm	#20
Lloyd 1985 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coningsby, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 2,780	Re: Hedghog PSC programmable standards converter I have tried running an old Nintendo Entertainment system through mine, and it refuses to sync, I also tried on the Aurora and that also refused to sync, so I guess there is something a bit rubbish about the signals these types of old computers create, a normal TV copes with it fine, but standards converters do t like it! Regards Lloyd