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Old 30th Jul 2019, 11:25 pm   #1
Phil G4SPZ
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Default PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Long shots don’t come much longer than this one! A kind soul has donated a working PAM710 to the Black Country Living Museum for its planned new radio shop, Stantons:

https://www.bclm.co.uk/forging-ahead...ic-shop/94.htm

The radio needs cosmetic restoration, and the biggest issue is that half the transparent volume control knob is missing, see photo.

If anyone has such an item and is willing to sell or donate it to the cause, we’d be pleased to hear from you! Making a new one is not impossible, but for the moment I can only think of making a mould from the complete and matching tuning knob, and trying to cast a replica in clear resin. That won’t be easy.

Thanks for any help or advice,

Phil
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 11:33 pm   #2
DangerMan
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

I believe the knobs from a Pye PB123 are the same, which might increase the chances!

Do you have a photo of the good one, and dimensions so we can be sure?

Pete
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 11:38 pm   #3
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Hi Pete,

Yes, looking at the Pye set suggests that the knobs are similar if not identical.

I only saw the Pam for five minutes late this afternoon, and only had time to take the one photo. The brights are also missing from both knobs, but that will be less of a problem. I can see myself rummaging through all the boxes of knobs at next year’s NVCF!

Incidentally, I’ve read claims that there are only perhaps 20 of these sets still in existence. I wonder if that’s correct?
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 12:16 am   #4
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
Incidentally, I’ve read claims that there are only perhaps 20 of these sets still in existence. I wonder if that’s correct?
Seems a fair guess to me. Some years ago I read that six examples were known, but they do keep turning up from time to time, and even now a few more lurkers may emerge given that they're unlikely to provoke much attention until seen by a vintage radio enthusiast. Fortunately for this set the Pye P123BQ is much more common and a knob donor shouldn't take long to find.

Paul
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 6:29 pm   #5
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Great news about that PAM 710. I'll look forward to visiting it in due course!

I have a scrap Pye P123BQ and could send you the knobs from that.
Differences (I have both sets, as you might suspect!) are:
Pye knobs have a dark band near the centre of the knob, Pam are just gold.
Pye tuning knobs have the station wavelengths marked on the upper half of the dial, and show LW wavelengths as well. The Pam 710 has preset LW so has no LW dial markings, and MW markings on the lower half of the dial.
Pye volume knobs have Volume at the bottom and "off" above. The Pam 710 is vice versa.
To be honest, using the Pye knobs for display of a Pam710 would not look too bad at all, but keep the original knobs (inside the set) for posterity please!
As the 710 has upward-facing knobs, they would not normally be seen except side-on, so exact markings wouldn't matter as much.
Photos attached.
-Jeremy
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 7:28 pm   #6
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamphonica View Post
Pye volume knobs have Volume at the bottom and "off" above. The Pam 710 is vice versa.
I hadn't noticed this, but I think it may be the only difference between the knobs of the 710 and of the early version (in my experience, the more common form) of the Pye P123BQ, which like the 710 has pre-set LW tuning,

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/pye_p123bqrp_123_bq.html

EDIT: Oops, no, the tuning knob markings are reversed too: the first "M" in "Medium Wave" is adjacent to 200 metres on the 710, 550 metres on the 123.

Paul

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Old 31st Jul 2019, 8:23 pm   #7
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Paul, very interesting post.

I just checked my three P123BQs and I had never noticed, but two are LW-tunable and the other (my "scrap" set) has the earlier non-tunable LW and dials that are identical to the 710.

So Phil, the options for the Black Country Living Museum PAM710 are:
- I take the knobs from my one (older) version of the Pye set, the scrap set, as long as they agree to come off! These are the most misted but are usable. Also the best match probably if they are used together, but will need a bit of scratch-removal to clear the dials.
- I take the knobs from one of my two restored working sets, and you use those (better knobs, with brights), but less original-looking.
- You wait till a set comes up at auction (my third set cost only £10, recently)

I would slightly favour the first option, so as to keep the working sets intact, but do very much want the museum to have their working 710 restored, so I'm willing to do either option. The key thing is to restore the vastly rarer 710 so people can see and hear it!

-Jeremy
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 8:35 pm   #8
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

I have four(!!) versions of P123BQ which are all different but all have clear outer knobs fitted over an inner gold one which carry the different markings... one has tuneable LW but the others don't.

If the museum's Pam710 follows this pattern you might be able to rescue and clean up the inner gold part and preserve appearances.

Pete
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 9:22 pm   #9
Phil G4SPZ
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamphonica View Post
...my "scrap" set has the earlier non-tunable LW and dials that are identical to the 710.

So Phil, the options for the Black Country Living Museum PAM710 are:
- I take the knobs from my one (older) version of the Pye set, the scrap set, as long as they agree to come off! These are the most misted but are usable. Also the best match probably if they are used together, but will need a bit of scratch-removal to clear the dials.

I would slightly favour the first option, so as to keep the working sets intact...

-Jeremy
Hi Jeremy,

As a Blackcountryman would say, "Yo've cum up wi' a bostin' idea theer!"

That is a really generous offer, thank you very much, and we would be delighted to have the knobs from your scrap Pye set. As far as I can tell, the inner portion of the volume knob is fixed in position relative to the cabinet, and the outer transparent knob actually rotates. On our set, the outer part is snapped in half, but the inner part is complete with the legend "OFF" - "VOLUME".

Probably the best bet is for you to attempt to remove the knobs from your set, and post in this thread once they're off. I will then contact you by PM to arrange postage etc. I'll send you a return postage-paid Jiffy bag to make things simple.

Our Researcher is going to be so chuffed! If nothing else, I'll get you a couple of complimentary tickets, and the fish & chips will be on me!

Thanks again,
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 11:06 pm   #10
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Righty-Ho. I'll report back once I've had a go. This will probably have to wait a week or two as other things are about to interrupt my electronic pottering.
Don't worry about a jiffy bag. I have plenty and my pension should cover 2nd class postage!
And if these don't quite work we'll move on to plan B...
All the best
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Old 1st Aug 2019, 7:18 am   #11
Phil G4SPZ
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

You are a star!
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 4:05 pm   #12
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Well, the volume knob fought back but I won! After a bit of exploratory firm pulling yesterday, I left it stressed upwards on its shaft overnight, using three spacers underneath the rim, and this afternoon a further firm simultaneous pull all round the rim finally did the trick.
The tuning scale dial and knob is not yet playing ball.
By the way, the volume knob with scale does rotate as one piece. The words rotate along with the clear cover. The two parts are separate but the gold legend inner piece is held in place by the metal circlip. I decided not to ruin a perfectly good knob by trying to remove and clean the inner legend section! But after some cleaning and a bit of polishing the knob is looking very usable now. See it below vs its brother on my Pam 710.
You'll need to make up a bright for it.
If you would like me to send just the volume knob on now, just PM me the address.
All the best
Jeremy
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 4:34 pm   #13
Phil G4SPZ
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Well done Jeremy, and thank you very much. It looks good - a great improvement on our set’s broken knob - and I have some new Roberts brights which may suffice.

A PM is on its way.
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 4:35 pm   #14
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

The original brights are reversed (eg dished) china-hat style (pointed not domed) but in practice, as long as they match, they will look fine, I am sure.
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 6:00 pm   #15
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for the info on the brights, all understood.

Sorry the PM has been delayed. I’m away at present and the mobile data service in this part of Wales failed briefly and caused me to lose the entire content that I’d painstakingly typed in. It’ll be with you shortly, with luck!
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 7:15 pm   #16
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Just to complete the tale, the tuning knob is finally off as well.
I've written up the struggles in this thread!
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...35#post1167535
The volume knob is off to the Black Country Museum for their Pam 710 and the tuning knob will be kept as a valuable spare for my own 710.
-Jeremy
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 10:04 pm   #17
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Default Re: PAM 710 volume knob wanted

Hi Jeremy, you have a PM.

I can confirm safe receipt of said knob. I've also found two suitable 'brights' in my own spares box.

The Museum will be forever in your debt. A free entrance ticket awaits you next time you're down this way!
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