Baird T5 garage find - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Magpie66 · 2nd Jul 2018, 3:06 pm

Hi All, I am new to this forum but have collected the occasional valve radio since I was seven.
I have recently acquired a Baird T5 TV serial number 142 in pretty poor condition. It is full of woodworm which I have tried to treat but don’t know how far to go. I know this is a very rare TV and do not want to ruin its originality.
Could someone give us a few pointers?
Thanks Anthony

Restoration73 · 2nd Jul 2018, 4:36 pm

I would tend to engage a professional restorer in the repairs wanted section below, as
there are issues, in particular safety, that are critical.

http://www.thevalvepage.com/tvmanu/baird/baird.htm

FERNSEH · 2nd Jul 2018, 4:38 pm

Very rare and valuable set.

DFWB.

stevehertz · 2nd Jul 2018, 6:54 pm

Photos would be a great help. But with regards to restoration, the work is likely to be extremely challenging and highly demanding in terms of ability and time. If you don't feel that you have both of those, or are unable to agree terms with someone who can do the work for you, then the best thing is to let it go (sell it) to a specialist collector. Pre-war sets are rare, and new finds are especially rare.

Magpie66 · 2nd Jul 2018, 8:49 pm

Thanks for the pointers. If I did decide to sell, any idea where the best place to go is?
My wife and I are so pleased to own this part of history but I do feel that maybe it does need a professional to tackle this one. I have attached a few photos.

beery · 3rd Jul 2018, 12:06 am

Hi Anthony,
That is a very nice set to find. I restored one for a friend a few years ago and I have scans of the circuit diagrams.
I notice that your set has the original cathodevisor CRT, some sets had Cossor tubes fitted later.
Note that the right hand panel at the front hinges open to reveal the timebase controls. It would be interesting to see if the 240/405 line switch is present.

I can help and advise with the electronic restoration, but I don't have room to work on the whole set. Luckilly each chassis is fairly easily removed, although you may well find the flexible shaft connecting the fine tuning control is stuck on.

Do take note that the CRT is quite dangerous and needs to be treated with respect, especially if it needs to be removed to complete the cabinet repairs.
Also the set has potentially lethal mains EHT, though thankfully it is quite well contained in this set and has a safety interlock. Be sure that you know what you are doing before you tackle a mains EHT set.

A great find though and I'm glad another one of these sets has been saved.
Do let me know if you want any more technical info.

Cheers
Andy

ianm · 3rd Jul 2018, 8:24 am

What an exciting find! I wish you well with it. Looks like a very good candidate for restoration.

peter_scott · 3rd Jul 2018, 8:33 am

It would be wonderful to see it restored to working order again.

Peter

jb332 · 3rd Jul 2018, 5:39 pm

One sold at auction a few years ago. I think the price was probably a one-off...

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19798/lot/1/

Freya · 3rd Jul 2018, 5:46 pm

This is a real gem to find these days, the chassis looks to be in very reasonable condition compared with some sets of the era.
Looking at the down side, the cabinet could be down to 20% structural wood left. If the veneer were to be removed it would barely stand up.

McMurdo · 3rd Jul 2018, 6:13 pm

well done on your acquisition. You'll have some envious or jealous onlookers with that one!!

G6Tanuki · 3rd Jul 2018, 6:46 pm

How lovely!

As an "if it doesn't work as designed, it's valueless" type I'd concentrate first on getting the electronics to do their thing. Take them out of the woodwork and - if necessary - build a frame to support them while working on them.

Then when you've got the radio/video/display side doing its thing properly, think about what to do with the woodwork.

mark pirate · 4th Jul 2018, 8:25 am

Quote:

If I did decide to sell, any idea where the best place to go is.

I would think ebay is your best bet should you decide to sell it.

It looks like the cabinet is the biggest problem to restore, it would require expert attention to replicate new sections of wood/replacement veneer.

The electronics don't look in bad shape, but in a set of this rarity need to be restored to the highest standard.

There is also the question of the CRT condition, this would be nigh on impossible to replace if it turned out to have open heaters or zero emission. There are now no specialists left to attempt a rebuild.

Mark.

Panrock · 4th Jul 2018, 9:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark pirate

There is also the question of the CRT condition, this would be nigh on impossible to replace if it turned out to have open heaters or zero emission. There are now no specialists left to attempt a rebuild.

The CRT heater is certainly worth a quick meter check before you start. It turned out to be open-circuit on the 'forgotten' T5 I discovered in the BBC Wood Norton cellar in the 1980s.

Steve

Studio263 · 4th Jul 2018, 10:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb332

One sold at auction a few years ago. I think the price was probably a one-off...

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19798/lot/1/

That Bonhams description looks a bit off to me:

"The world's first 405-line high-definition television receiver"

I'm no expert on this era, but I'd have guessed that EMI would have got something out before Baird...

FERNSEH · 4th Jul 2018, 11:05 am

I believe development of the T5 started in sometime in 1935, possibly some input from Fernseh AG.
Some goes for the HMV 900. Work on that set might even started in 1934.
Cossor 137T was production ready early 1936.

DFWB.

peter_scott · 4th Jul 2018, 12:57 pm

I suspect the first 405 line set was probably that EMI prototype that appeared some years ago.

Peter

FERNSEH · 4th Jul 2018, 1:34 pm

Hi Peter,
I have pictures of an EMI prototype mirror lid TV receiver. It employs a 9" Emiscope CRT and has all the pre-set controls situated on the front of the cabinet in the same manner as in the attachment in the previous post.

DFWB.

peter_scott · 4th Jul 2018, 3:02 pm

Hi David,

Yes, that's the same set. I have those photos too but the owner claimed copyright so I didn't use them. A very interesting set though. No branding or serial number and looked as if it never had a back panel fitted to it.

Peter

FERNSEH · 4th Jul 2018, 3:26 pm

Hi David, Yes, that's the same set. I have those photos too but the owner claimed copyright so I didn't use them.

Hi Peter, Then I'd better not post up the pictures either. I believe the owner arbitrarily called it a Marconi 700.
Some of the circuits resembled the model 704. Superhet receiver with low IFs, no RF stage, signals slammed straight into the mixer stage.

DFWB.

2nd Jul 2018, 3:06 pm	#1
Magpie66 Diode Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Chesham, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 6	Baird T5 garage find Hi All, I am new to this forum but have collected the occasional valve radio since I was seven. I have recently acquired a Baird T5 TV serial number 142 in pretty poor condition. It is full of woodworm which I have tried to treat but don’t know how far to go. I know this is a very rare TV and do not want to ruin its originality. Could someone give us a few pointers? Thanks Anthony

2nd Jul 2018, 4:36 pm	#2
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,057	Re: Baird T5 garage find I would tend to engage a professional restorer in the repairs wanted section below, as there are issues, in particular safety, that are critical. http://www.thevalvepage.com/tvmanu/baird/baird.htm

2nd Jul 2018, 4:38 pm	#3
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 6,440	Re: Baird T5 garage find Very rare and valuable set. DFWB.

2nd Jul 2018, 6:54 pm	#4
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 5,081	Re: Baird T5 garage find Photos would be a great help. But with regards to restoration, the work is likely to be extremely challenging and highly demanding in terms of ability and time. If you don't feel that you have both of those, or are unable to agree terms with someone who can do the work for you, then the best thing is to let it go (sell it) to a specialist collector. Pre-war sets are rare, and new finds are especially rare. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

2nd Jul 2018, 8:49 pm	#5
Magpie66 Diode Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Chesham, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 6	Re: Baird T5 garage find Thanks for the pointers. If I did decide to sell, any idea where the best place to go is? My wife and I are so pleased to own this part of history but I do feel that maybe it does need a professional to tackle this one. I have attached a few photos. Attached Thumbnails

3rd Jul 2018, 12:06 am	#6
beery Heptode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ware, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 841	Re: Baird T5 garage find Hi Anthony, That is a very nice set to find. I restored one for a friend a few years ago and I have scans of the circuit diagrams. I notice that your set has the original cathodevisor CRT, some sets had Cossor tubes fitted later. Note that the right hand panel at the front hinges open to reveal the timebase controls. It would be interesting to see if the 240/405 line switch is present. I can help and advise with the electronic restoration, but I don't have room to work on the whole set. Luckilly each chassis is fairly easily removed, although you may well find the flexible shaft connecting the fine tuning control is stuck on. Do take note that the CRT is quite dangerous and needs to be treated with respect, especially if it needs to be removed to complete the cabinet repairs. Also the set has potentially lethal mains EHT, though thankfully it is quite well contained in this set and has a safety interlock. Be sure that you know what you are doing before you tackle a mains EHT set. A great find though and I'm glad another one of these sets has been saved. Do let me know if you want any more technical info. Cheers Andy __________________ www.youtube.com/user/andyvalve100

3rd Jul 2018, 8:24 am	#7
ianm Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 329	Re: Baird T5 garage find What an exciting find! I wish you well with it. Looks like a very good candidate for restoration. __________________ Regards Ian McLaughlin, BVWS member

3rd Jul 2018, 8:33 am	#8
peter_scott Nonode Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edinburgh, UK. Posts: 2,699	Re: Baird T5 garage find It would be wonderful to see it restored to working order again. Peter __________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/c/PeterScott

3rd Jul 2018, 5:39 pm	#9
jb332 Triode Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK. Posts: 29	Re: Baird T5 garage find One sold at auction a few years ago. I think the price was probably a one-off... https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19798/lot/1/

3rd Jul 2018, 5:46 pm	#10
Freya Octode Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 1,766	Re: Baird T5 garage find This is a real gem to find these days, the chassis looks to be in very reasonable condition compared with some sets of the era. Looking at the down side, the cabinet could be down to 20% structural wood left. If the veneer were to be removed it would barely stand up. __________________ Stephen _________"It`s only an old telly" ___

3rd Jul 2018, 6:13 pm	#11
McMurdo Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK. Posts: 4,222	Re: Baird T5 garage find well done on your acquisition. You'll have some envious or jealous onlookers with that one!! __________________ Kevin

3rd Jul 2018, 6:46 pm	#12
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 9,637	Re: Baird T5 garage find How lovely! As an "if it doesn't work as designed, it's valueless" type I'd concentrate first on getting the electronics to do their thing. Take them out of the woodwork and - if necessary - build a frame to support them while working on them. Then when you've got the radio/video/display side doing its thing properly, think about what to do with the woodwork.

4th Jul 2018, 11:05 am	#16
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 6,440	Re: Baird T5 garage find I believe development of the T5 started in sometime in 1935, possibly some input from Fernseh AG. Some goes for the HMV 900. Work on that set might even started in 1934. Cossor 137T was production ready early 1936. DFWB.

4th Jul 2018, 12:57 pm	#17
peter_scott Nonode Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edinburgh, UK. Posts: 2,699	Re: Baird T5 garage find I suspect the first 405 line set was probably that EMI prototype that appeared some years ago. Peter Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/c/PeterScott

4th Jul 2018, 1:34 pm	#18
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 6,440	Re: Baird T5 garage find Hi Peter, I have pictures of an EMI prototype mirror lid TV receiver. It employs a 9" Emiscope CRT and has all the pre-set controls situated on the front of the cabinet in the same manner as in the attachment in the previous post. DFWB.

4th Jul 2018, 3:02 pm	#19
peter_scott Nonode Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edinburgh, UK. Posts: 2,699	Re: Baird T5 garage find Hi David, Yes, that's the same set. I have those photos too but the owner claimed copyright so I didn't use them. A very interesting set though. No branding or serial number and looked as if it never had a back panel fitted to it. Peter __________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/c/PeterScott

4th Jul 2018, 3:26 pm	#20
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 6,440	Re: Baird T5 garage find Hi David, Yes, that's the same set. I have those photos too but the owner claimed copyright so I didn't use them. Hi Peter, Then I'd better not post up the pictures either. I believe the owner arbitrarily called it a Marconi 700. Some of the circuits resembled the model 704. Superhet receiver with low IFs, no RF stage, signals slammed straight into the mixer stage. DFWB. Last edited by FERNSEH; 4th Jul 2018 at 3:33 pm.