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Old 13th Apr 2018, 8:52 am   #1
PsychMan
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Default TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Ive never done anything with TV but do plan to some time this year. I have a Baird P2214 which I found locally very cheaply, the size and style of it appeals to me, but 405 lines offer an extra challenge in getting a PC based or aurora setup.

I'm considering passing this on in favour of an early dual standard or plain 625 set for ease of use. My main aim has always been to use such a set occasionally for period horror/scifi (twilight zone etc). So for those in the know, is there anything relatively similar in size that might be worth considering, and if so anything pre 1965? I suppose something similar in appearance to what I have but 625 line?

Perhaps some of you TV experts can help? I'm in the process of rationalising my "round-to-it" stuff, I may just keep the Baird as it does have a certain charm for me.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 4:09 pm   #2
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Hi,
I can't find much info on the P2214- only one link on this forum and none on Google.
There seems to be an almost limitless supply of 405 only sets but dual standards are very thin on the ground as are 625 only sets. Dual standards also have added complexities and a much more complex LOPT.
405 pictures are very watchable and give excellent entertainment:- indeed, there seems to have been debate at the time as to whether 625 was as good!
The Aurora has been a godsend and is so convenient, but if you are only going to restore one set it does add to the cost.
The PC route is interesting but only if you have the relevant enthusiasm to experiment with it. You also have to build a modulator.
Personally, I would stick with the set you have if you like it and 'set to' and restore it!!
Plus you get to experience that piercing line whistle!

All the best
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 4:29 pm   #3
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Thanks for the advice Nick. I would like more TVs in the future, but unfortunately space does not allow, so the aurora would be a little excessive for me at this stage Fortunately I come from a computer background so the I'm sure the NVidia options will be do-able for me

Seems like I may be best off keeping the Baird and trying to get a picture on it.

I have sourced replacements for 2 missing valves on the tuner section and checked the CRT heater for continuity so I've already made a start
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 4:55 pm   #4
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

It would be nice to see some pictures of the Baird. Maybe you could start a thread about it? If that's the correct model number, it would seem to be a very unusual set.
Good luck with it though.
Cheers
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 5:05 pm   #5
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Nvidia only works if you have an XP PC with a PCIe x16 slot.
ATI graphics cards are better supported and work with Win 7 (& PCIe x16)

Peter
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 6:41 pm   #6
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Hi,
I am definitely biased towards 405.
Pre 1965 dual standard sets were often sold as convertable sets, that is they were sold as 405 only with upgrade kits available for 625. My experience is that they are not necessarily that good on 625. True dual standard or 625 only sets would probably look a bit too modern for you.

The Baird sounds interesting. Often late 50s or early 60s sets are not worth much, but if you like them then all the better. One period that I am now a little bit interested in (though I have no sets from this era) are first generation printed circuit sets.

Anyway, I would say stick with 405 and treat the working out a signal source as part of the project/fun rather than a hurdle. I started collecting 405 only sets in the late 80s and it was quite a while before I had a 405 line signal source.

I second the request for pictures of the Baird.

Cheers
Andy
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 7:50 pm   #7
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Thanks Gents. I promise to take some pictures this weekend and post on this thread.

I wasnt particularly hunting for a Baird when I bought it, just saw it down the road from me on ebay and it fitted the style I was after
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 3:24 pm   #8
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Are you certain the model number is 2214? There are several Baird models with very similar numbers but I cannot trace the 2214.
Is it a Band1/3 model? If Band 1 only [BBC] the missing valves may have been removed to fit a Band 3 converter. John.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 3:37 pm   #9
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

It could be a P2114, 14" table top set
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 4:51 pm   #10
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

I personally do not consider 625 to be vintage TV. Yes, that's is a totally biassed opinion as someone who once owned a very large collection of pre and just post war vintage TVs - nothing (post war) bigger than a 9" screen. Saying that, we are all different and it's down to personal taste how we get our fun. That is what it's all about, enjoyment, most of us are doing this for fun, not to make money. On that note, I don't think anyone can tell or advise you which route to go down, it's up to you. How do you feel about the different technologies, physical appearances, their history, etc etc.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 7:18 pm   #11
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Psychman wrote: "I have a Baird P2214 which I found locally very cheaply, the size and style of it appeals to me, but 405 lines offer an extra challenge in getting a PC based or aurora setup". The Baird P2214 was discussed in this forum four years ago: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=114177 The five channel tuner fitted in some Baird P2214 TV receivers:
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=112988

DFWB.

Last edited by FERNSEH; 14th Apr 2018 at 7:29 pm.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 7:43 pm   #12
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

It's quite a nice looking set.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...6&d=1427385277

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Old 14th Apr 2018, 8:06 pm   #13
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

If I was going into vintage TV I'd want something I could easily arrange a supply of content-I-actually-wanted-to-watch.

Which is always going to be far easier to arrange for 625 than 405: a cheap car-boot-sale VHS VCR for legacy recorded programs, then with a PC-with-VGA-output coupled to a RF modulator will get you the ability to watch current content or YouTube legacy stuff as downloads.

A BRC/Thorn 2000 - the UK's first all-solid-state colour set - would be my choice.

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/brcthorn-2000/
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 5:53 pm   #14
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Pictures as promised
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 5:54 pm   #15
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

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Old 15th Apr 2018, 7:16 pm   #16
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Hi PsychMan,
That's quite a nice looking set and in quite good condition.
Are those free standing IF coils? Quite unusual.
I notice it seems quite nicley put together underneath with not too many waxies or Hunts caps.

Cheers
Andy
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 10:25 am   #17
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

Hi
Can I throw a spanner among the pigeons? In terms of reliability, not having to use an Aurora (only in view of the cost - it's a fine piece of equipment) and performance with a suitable source, I'd go for a 625-line set. As you're new to TV, it would be better to cut your teeth on, say, a Thorn 1500. Simple design, fair performance, reliable LOPT and fairly plentiful. Once you get one going - and it won't take long - that'll give you confidence to tackle a dual standard, say, and then embark on the dark art of 405!
A good 'compromise' dual standard set, with metal chassis, point-to-point wiring but relatively recent circuitry would be the ITT-KB VC 51 series.
As Steve says, it may not be vintage TV but it's fun!
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 11:51 am   #18
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

I was in the trade from '54 and I don't consider anything vintage unless it was made before then.

Peter
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 8:29 am   #19
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Default Re: TV Advice - 405 vs early 625

I started in the trade in 1976 working on the last generation of dual standard and first generation single standard 625 black and white TV's. Most of the single standard 405 line sets were gone by then.

Around Bath 405 line reception was, in many places, very poor so when the UHF/625 Mendip transmitter opened most people switched over to the new service very quickly. This was also the reason why we did not see many first generation dual standard colour tellies as the reception from the UHF/625 Wenvoe transmitter for most people was impossible unless you lived in a very favourable location.

So for me vintage televisions are anything pre 1980. As I have little experience on 405 only tellies I would recommend a BRC 1400, RBM A640, or ITT/KB VC51 dual standard set to work on or the BRC1500 625 only chassis to start out with. If you have not got a 625/405 line convertor then a BRC 1500 is probably best.
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