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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

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Old 6th Mar 2018, 5:20 pm   #81
Nuvistor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulliver View Post
Who runs a flat screen 10 years old? Well....I do...but it's really in need of replacement.
Yes I do but I cannot say it is need of replacement, it works does the job, itís stays until itís beyond economic repair, which could be its first failure but I will cross that bridge when it arrives. TV bought in 2005.
In fact I have a smaller flat screen TV in the bedroom that is 8 years old with little use, if the main TV fails I will probably just use the smaller one.
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Old 6th Mar 2018, 9:26 pm   #82
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There's a cheapo 32" LCD in my bedroom and it's now just over eight years old and has never given any problems. The reliability of these things is the reason why there is so little service work. Going back to 1977 when the Philips G11 was introduced the talk was of less than one service call each year. A good and a bad thing for TV rental. The fact that the new sets were proving to be reliable meant the demise of rental.
A nice LCD repair job on Monday, see the attachment. A Chinese made? Logic brand set with five bulging elcos on the power supply board.
Not so lucky today. A real Toshiba LCD TV doing strange things. Too good to scrap. Last of the TV sets made in the Plymouth Ernesettle works. Got to fix that one!

DFWB.
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Old 6th Mar 2018, 11:39 pm   #83
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Quote:
A nice LCD repair job on Monday, see the attachment. A Chinese made? Logic brand set with five bulging elcos on the power supply board.
That is my favourite type of repair, takes longer to refit the back than change the caps
But will the customer be happy to cough up 30 quid?....

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Old 6th Mar 2018, 11:44 pm   #84
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"But will the customer be happy to cough up 30 quid?...."

plus VAT.

DFWB.

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Old 7th Mar 2018, 12:09 am   #85
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As a retired Chartered Electrical and Building Services Engineer, I'm passionate about preserving the title 'engineer' for those with professional qualifications and experience, as clearly described by G6Tanuki in post #70. But I also greatly admire the skills of craftsmen/women, and respect those who work with their hands. For example, I used to design heating and domestic water systems for hospitals, but I am totally incompetent at practical plumbing. On the other hand, I can repair clocks, but I could never design one. Neither would I claim to be a horologist, and by the same token I would not expect a boiler installer to describe himself as a 'plumbing and heating engineer', but we see it signwritten on plumbers' vans all the time. Our skill sets are different and potentially mutually exclusive, but no less valid or useful.

The basic issue is that, to the outsider, there are so many separate branches of engineering (electrical, mechanical, electronic, agricultural, structural, highways, aeronautical, chemical, civil, software...) and so many separate and exclusive learned societies and professional bodies representing them, that the profession as a whole has struggled to explain to the public what an 'engineer' actually is.

IMHO the hitherto clearly-named Institution of Electrical Engineers made a real blunder when it morphed into the "Institution of Engineering and Technology", and now it doesn't itself even seem to know what or who it represents or its purpose - other than to keep expanding its membership.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 9:24 am   #86
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Default Re: End of an era.

Quote:
plus VAT.
Good point David, you may be interested to read this article from 'Television' (June 1973)

REPAIRS AND VAT
R. Thomson, vice-president of the RTRA, commented
recently that the introduction of VAT
coupled with recent pay awards will make many
electrical repairs no longer worth while. "Many
repairs will no longer be viable and we shall be a
step nearer the American system of consigning an
article to the dustbin when it goes wrong" he suggested. To us it looks like increased demands for
the efforts of the kitchen table merchants. It is one
of the ironies of VAT that it will drive business away
from dealers towards the DIY brigade_; Most dealers have not exactly fallen over themselves in the past
to help the customer who turns up with something
faulty, but it is debatable whether such a move is appropriate at a time when there are growing efforts
to improve the standards and safety of electrical equipment.


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Old 7th Mar 2018, 11:16 am   #87
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Hi Mark,
Introduced in April 1973 the VAT rate was only 10% and was reduced to 8% in July 1974. VAT had to be added to TV rentals including existing contracts.
In July 1974, Labour Chancellor Denis Healey reduced the standard rate of VAT from 10% to 8% but introduced a new higher rate of 12.5% for petrol and some luxury goods. In November 1974, Healey doubled the higher rate of VAT to 25%. Healey reduced the higher rate back to 12.5% in April 1976.
I remember that new rental contracts were subject to the new higher rate and existing rental contracts remained at 8%.
Despite the doom laden comments in the Practical Television magazine the trade did prosper very well all through the 70s, 80s and 90s.

DFWB.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 1:13 pm   #88
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I have a large collection of television magazines going back to the to the fifties, it's funny reading through them at the letters wrote in going back to the late 60's. It seemed the end of the tv trade was always around the corner.

Well it looks like the end is here now. Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread it has made for really interesting reading.

John Joe.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 9:55 pm   #89
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I well remember VAT being introduced: the CRT of Mum's TV went soft the week before it came in (it was only 4 years old). I found a shop in West London that had a replacement in stock, but couldn't get there until after VAT day. No problem the shop said, we'll just backdate it for you. Saved me 10%.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 10:21 pm   #90
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Wasn't there purchase tax before VAT? I seem to remember VAT was supposed to replace purchase tax although I may be wrong as I was 11 at the time.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 10:35 pm   #91
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jamesperrett wrote: "Wasn't there purchase tax before VAT? I seem to remember VAT was supposed to replace purchase tax although I may be wrong as I was 11 at the time."
That's right. The Value Added Tax replaced the old purchase tax system in April 1973. Retailers received a full refund of the purchase tax on unsold goods after making a list of the purchase tax liable items that were in stock on the eve of the introduction of VAT. Actually, with the introduction of 10% VAT the retail price of television sets became less than it was under the old tax system.

DFWB.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 10:29 am   #92
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Quote:
Despite the doom laden comments in the Practical Television magazine the trade did prosper very well all through the 70s, 80s and 90s.
Indeed it did, there were a huge amount of rental shops, both the large chains and a lot of independents too.
Our first colour set was a 22" Decca Bradford, bought in 1975 on a 'rent to buy'
scheme over five years. All the advantages of rental, but full ownership after the five year period ended.

It appears that 'Television' did make one prophesy that came true...

Quote:
"Many repairs will no longer be viable and we shall be a
step nearer the American system of consigning an
article to the dustbin when it goes wrong" he suggested. To us it looks like increased demands for
the efforts of the kitchen table merchants.

Mark
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 12:46 pm   #93
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VAT was a consequence of us joining the Common Market (nowadays the EU). We had to "harmonise" our system to fit in with the trading bloc.

TV rental survived a long time because until quite recently televisions were expensive items. Even into the 90s when the cheap Chinese built "no name" brands came along, most branded units were costly. It was not uncommon in the 80s for a TV to cost £400 of 80s money, I would think well over a grand today. I can well see how many families would choose to rent rather than buy even after sets became very reliable. Especially if they were renting a VCR and possibly washing machine too.

All these things, at the low end of the market anyway, are so much cheaper now that the rental market has disappeared. I imagine there's still money to be made repairing washing machines however, given the trouble I seem to have with them.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 1:33 pm   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulliver View Post
VAT was a consequence of us joining the Common Market (nowadays the EU). We had to "harmonise" our system to fit in with the trading bloc.

TV rental survived a long time because until quite recently televisions were expensive items. Even into the 90s when the cheap Chinese built "no name" brands came along, most branded units were costly. It was not uncommon in the 80s for a TV to cost £400 of 80s money, I would think well over a grand today. I can well see how many families would choose to rent rather than buy even after sets became very reliable. Especially if they were renting a VCR and possibly washing machine too.

All these things, at the low end of the market anyway, are so much cheaper now that the rental market has disappeared. I imagine there's still money to be made repairing washing machines however, given the trouble I seem to have with them.
Thise on a tight budget who would have rented back in the day now probably buy, borrowing money at very high interest rates. E.g. This from https://www.brighthouse.co.uk

Representative example Ė 32"- 42" TVs (Refurbished)

Weekly Payment
£2.00
Product Price
£60.32
Delivery & Installation
£65.00
Product Price Including Delivery & Installation
£125.32
Number of Weeks
99
Annual Fixed Interest Rate/Representative APR
69.9%
Total Payable
£198.00
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 1:59 pm   #95
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Re post #94.
Credit card APR under 20%.
Is it really worth renting?
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 2:00 pm   #96
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Delivery & Installation
£65.00


Wow, I wish I could get that for installing a TV. Lucky if I receive £20 these days for a tune-in job.

Who is Brighthouse? Is it remnants of DER and Radio Rentals.

DFWB.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 2:12 pm   #97
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Caversham Finance Ltd trading as BrightHouse.
Formerly a Thorn company.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrightHouse_(retailer)
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 2:33 pm   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Delivery & Installation
£65.00


Wow, I wish I could get that for installing a TV. Lucky if I receive £20 these days for a tune-in job.

Who is Brighthouse? Is it remnants of DER and Radio Rentals.

DFWB.
Why shouldn't you? You are a professional not a hobbyist. If you price yourself too low, you may be regarded less highly than someone who asks for a realistic charge. When Sky bunnies etc are charging £70 plus for an incompetent's visit, why shouldn't you charge for a skilled service?

Rule of thumb is to increase your rates until you lose 10% of business due to the price. Then you have found the correct level. Never be afraid to turn away a cheapskate customer, it will ALWAYS come back to bite you on the bum.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 4:28 pm   #99
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You are absolutely right, of course. But it's hard to charge the old dear face to face for something you or I could do in our sleep - you forget it's rocket science to them.
It was much easier when I had someone to do the deliveries and installs. He would tell the complaining customer that he'd have his wages docked by the amount he let them off. Of course I wouldn't have done, but it worked a treat, even if it made me seem like a tyrant!
For some reason us small traders are seen as somehow less able than the big boys. If you charge, say, £50 you get told 'that's almost as much as Currys (or whoever) would charge!' - despite the fact we tune it in, remove the old set, give them a driving lesson.... It's the same for the motor industry - at a small garage you get an experienced mechanic charging far less than the main dealer who uses a just-qualified person.
A colleague once told me he doubled his prices, halved his customer numbers and made as much money from nicer people for less than half the work. I thought he was mad but now I'm not so sure.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 5:14 pm   #100
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Have too say I completely agree with you Scimitar, you have to get the pricing right.

Don't be afraid to charge Glyn, after all the old dear won't have sleepless nights thinking about you if you're forced out of business. I'm not saying rip people off, but you should get a fair pay for what are after all professional services.

This is why John started charging for quotes ( I meant to say quotes earlier, not estimates. ) To much time spent diagnosing faults on tv's to be told no thanks we'll get a new one and have the set left with you. If they quibble about 20 euro for a quote then chances are they wouldn't spend much more on a repair and you've at least saved yourself some time.

Not all business is good business.

Cheers,
John Joe.

Last edited by linescan87; 8th Mar 2018 at 5:20 pm.
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