UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Radio (domestic)

Notices

Vintage Radio (domestic) Domestic vintage radio (wireless) receivers only.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th Jan 2018, 1:33 pm   #1
MervynHagger
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Falkirk, UK.
Posts: 11
Default 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Excuse my wording, but I am new here. I am looking for information about all transistor receivers designed in 1963 and released by manufacturers for retail purchase around March 1964.

Specifically I am trying to identify both manufacturer and set, and in the instance of the manufacturer I am need to discover who the parent company was, if the manufacturer was a subsidiary.

I am especially interested in anything to do with a freelance designer under contract to Pye (John Stanley in particular), that may have resulted in the manufacture and sale of receivers with extended bands that focussed upon Veronica, Caroline, Atlanta and Luxembourg.

I am working on a research project that developed out of a statement on page 276 of the IEE book 'Radio Man' which is nominally about Charles Orr Stanley. Having discovered a copy of the original interview document which contains a statement by Alan Bednall given at his home in Barton to Nicholas Stanley, I need to identify specifically the company that John Stanley set up for this purpose and the set/s that Alan Bednall designed for sale with the launch and promotion of Radio Caroline in mind - without any public linking to either the Stanleys or Pye.
MervynHagger is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 3:33 pm   #2
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 22,186
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Just for your info, these radios didn't have extended coverage, but had an additional bandspread band centred on Radio Luxembourg (208 metres) or (much more rarely) one of the pirate wavelengths. This made it easier to tune in the weak and variable signals often available.

Bandspread specifically for the pirates was very rare because they were essentially regional stations and changed frequency a lot. A Luxembourg bandspread would have covered Caroline South on 199 metres though, and some other pirates at times too.
paulsherwin is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 3:50 pm   #3
Nuvistor
Dekatron
 
Nuvistor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 8,657
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

I thought the band spread sets were produced around 1966/67 not earlier. Some earlier sets had a position at the end of the dial to switch into LW 1500m to save a band switch and have 1500m fixed tuned.
__________________
Frank
Nuvistor is online now  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 3:59 pm   #4
crackle
Dekatron
 
crackle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,085
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Never heard of Alan Bednall so can't offer any help there, but I have had a couple of radios with Pirate stations marked on the dial.

This radio had a Luxemburg Band Spread, marked for Caroline.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/masteradio_d525.html

The same style of model was also available in various other makers names, e.g. model types GEC G825 and Sobell S325, but not sure if they had Caroline marked on the scale.

The RGD Rover RR221 had Caroline, R London, & R City all marked on the dial. I have also seen the KB Cobra KR021

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kolste...r021kr_02.html

with similar markings on the dial. The pirate station names were short lived on radio dials as my example of the Cobra is marked BBC1 in the dial and it soon became illegal to mark them.

Mike
__________________
BVWS Member, 2E1MJE
The KB Museum

My collection in the Radio Museum
crackle is online now  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 4:19 pm   #5
Tractionist
Heptode
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 743
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Some Bush TR82's and definitely the TR130's had band spreads for Luxemburg ......
__________________
Red to red, black to black. Throw the switch and stand well back!
Tractionist is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 4:36 pm   #6
Hartley118
Octode
 
Hartley118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK.
Posts: 1,830
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

The Bush TR130 had bandspread at the bottom 200m end of the MW band. It was switched in as an extra discrete waveband and marked in orange on the dial.

See http://www.richardsradios.co.uk/BushTR130.html

Its coverage was from about 190m to 210m, thus including Luxembourg on 208m and the BBC Third Programme on 194m. It naturally covered a number of the Pirate stations, though those are not marked on the dial.

These 'bottom of the band' stations unfortunately often suffered from poor sensitivity in conventional MW/LW sets because they were vulnerable to poor alignment tracking between local oscillator and front end aerial tuning which was inevitably a compromise, usually optimized at the middle of the band. Giving them their own waveband presumably provided scope for better tracking and therefore higher sensitivity as well as easier tuning.

The TR130 was an excellent radio - we still have one in the family - but no connection with Pye and the Stanleys I'm afraid.

Martin
__________________
BVWS Member
Hartley118 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 6:30 pm   #7
buggies
Heptode
 
buggies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Lothian, UK.
Posts: 597
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MervynHagger View Post
Excuse my wording, but I am new here. I am looking for information about all transistor receivers designed in 1963 and released by manufacturers for retail purchase around March 1964.
The Perdio PR167 Caralux fits the description, it had three switched bands, LW, MW and bandspread centred on 208m (1440kc/s)
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/perdio...r167pr_16.html
It was an "in-house" design from the lab in Bonhill Street and was manufactured in the Pallion, Sunderland factory.
__________________
George
buggies is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 8:28 pm   #8
rambo1152
Nonode
 
rambo1152's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 2,904
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

My grandmother had a Bush TR90CL. The 208 button got a lot of use, by me.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/bush_tr90cltr_90_c.html
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
rambo1152 is online now  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 9:06 pm   #9
MervynHagger
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Falkirk, UK.
Posts: 11
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggies View Post
The Perdio PR167 Caralux fits the description, it had three switched bands, LW, MW and bandspread centred on 208m (1440kc/s)
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/perdio...r167pr_16.html
It was an "in-house" design from the lab in Bonhill Street and was manufactured in the Pallion, Sunderland factory.
Others have mentioned the Caralux and one of the original broadcasting engineers on board mv Mi Amigo still has one. We were discussing it tonight. But until now no one has mentioned the manufacturer. Can anyone direct me to a site or even a thread with more information about this company in 1963-1964?
MervynHagger is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2018, 9:24 am   #10
Nuvistor
Dekatron
 
Nuvistor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 8,657
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Wikipedia has some information, but more importantly with references for further research.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perdio_Radio
__________________
Frank
Nuvistor is online now  
Old 6th Jan 2018, 11:49 am   #11
MervynHagger
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Falkirk, UK.
Posts: 11
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
Wikipedia has some information, but more importantly with references for further research.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perdio_Radio
Wikipedia is the most unreliable source of any information on any and everything. I never cite it as a source.

I have newspaper archive subscriptions and I have undertaken a big search as a result of the Caralux links to Perdio. However, by December 24, 1963 Perdio was already in big financial trouble and by 1965 after going from bad to worse it collapsed and its name was absorbed by another firm.

The description given by Alan Bednall is quite specific about being sworn to secrecy by John Stanley (Pye) who created a company (Perdio was in business long before 1963 as a private company that went public.) Bednall who was a freelance designer under contract to Pye, only says that the company he did all of the design work for was a company "manufacturing radio equipment". We know that in this instance it cannot have been broadcasting equipment and therefore that only leaves receiving equipment in the context of what is being researched.

Since the subject matter is secretly aiding and abetting the establishment of Radio Caroline which began transmissions in March 1964, from a venture that is dated beginning around October 1963, the most likely candidate is a receiver with an extended band that would publicize and facilitate easy listening to Radio Caroline on "199 metres".

At first glance the Caralux set seems to fit the bill, but upon closer inspection none of the supporting information does fit.

Any more suggestions?
MervynHagger is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2018, 12:38 pm   #12
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 18,409
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Some information on "Perdio Electronics Ltd" is available at The National Archives:-

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ils/r/C5062324
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Keep the soldering iron hot.
Station X is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2018, 12:49 pm   #13
boxdoctor
Heptode
 
boxdoctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ripley, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 784
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Some limited Perdio information here...https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Perdio_Electronics
Not much to go on though.
Perdio made some interesting and innovative products, but seemed to lack business management skills. I think they had some really inspired designers, though. Tony
__________________
The job "couldn't be done".
He didn't know that,
So he did it.
boxdoctor is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2018, 12:57 pm   #14
Andrew2
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,834
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

My Ekco Vanity (1965 I think) has a bandspread feature covering the HF end of the band. Caroline is marked and note the old 1200KHz allocation for Manx Radio. Radio London is marked on the main MW scale.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ekco Vanity.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	126.8 KB
ID:	155061  
__________________
Andy G1HBE.

Last edited by Andrew2; 6th Jan 2018 at 1:04 pm.
Andrew2 is offline  
Old 8th Jan 2018, 9:16 am   #15
Hybrid tellies
Nonode
 
Hybrid tellies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 2,584
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

I have two radios from the mid 1960's, Bush TR130 and GEC G817, that have bandspread from 187-210m. All showing on the dial Third on 194m, Caroline on 199m, West on 206m and Luxembourg on 208m.
Back in those days the Medium waveband was very congested especially after dark. I remember clearly how lively the medium wave band would become especially around the 200m end of the band on most evenings.
Most radios of the day also had rather non linear dials which meant that tuning stations around the 200m end could be very critical indeed and on many smaller radios trying to tune in Radio Luxembourg on 208m was an acquired skill and that was why some radios were fitted with a bandspread to help listeners separate out and make tuning easier for stations like the BBC, Caroline and Luxembourg which used the 200m or HF end of the band.
__________________
Simon
BVWS member

Last edited by Hybrid tellies; 8th Jan 2018 at 9:25 am.
Hybrid tellies is offline  
Old 8th Jan 2018, 9:38 am   #16
Keith
Heptode
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 610
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

The Murphy B815 had Caroline on the bandspread dial but that was around 1965, I think.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MurphyB815.jpg
Views:	356
Size:	73.5 KB
ID:	155135  
__________________
Keith Yates - G3XGW
VMARS & BVWS member http://www.tibblestone.com/oldradios/Old_Radios.htm
Keith is offline  
Old 8th Jan 2018, 10:50 am   #17
Paul_RK
Dekatron
 
Paul_RK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 3,275
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

If there was any such planning quite as Mervyn relates, I can only conclude that it proved abortive. I can't think of any new UK manufacturer, subsidiary or brand that made much of a splash in or around 1963/4, a time when inexpensive British-made receivers were fast being driven from the market. Radios produced in any quantity don't just disappear, and fifty years later many of us here are familiar with a wide swathe of the sets that were at all successful in market terms in the mid '60s.

Checking Jonathan Hill's 'Radio! Radio!' for release dates, the Perdio Caralux was at least quite an early entry as bandspread sets go, arriving in 1964 as a development of the 1962/3 Town and Country, which had been offered with three different waveband combinations - LW/MW/SW, LW/MW/Marine Band and MW/2SW. 'Radio Bygones' no. 58. April/May 1999, has a substantial article from Rod Burman on the Town and Country and its variants.

The Fidelity 199 and 199A might also have been thought to be giving Caroline some publicity, but I expect they were instead aimed at exploiting the station's popularity. In any case they only appeared in 1965 and '66, were quite drab little sets without bandspread, and from their scarcity today they can't have sold particularly well. 'Radio! Radio!' refers also to a couple of small Hong Kong-produced radios from 1964 that were branded 'Caroline'. These too are far from common and seem most likely an importer's attempt to boost their own sales.

Paul
Paul_RK is online now  
Old 8th Jan 2018, 11:02 am   #18
'LIVEWIRE?'
Rest in Peace
 
'LIVEWIRE?''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton)
Posts: 7,307
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

IIRC Radio Caroline used to sell and promote their own transistor radio, which may well have been the Hong Kong made sets mentioned by Paul RK in post #17
'LIVEWIRE?' is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2018, 4:27 pm   #19
davidw
Heptode
 
davidw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 574
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_RK View Post
'Radio! Radio!' refers also to a couple of small Hong Kong-produced radios from 1964 that were branded 'Caroline'. These too are far from common and seem most likely an importer's attempt to boost their own sales.Paul
I haven't come across a Caralux or Caroline badged set (wish I had) but I do have a Hong Kong made Vicki LUX 611 which has bandspread over the Luxemburg and pirate wavelengths.
186-272 metres.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20180110_160218.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	71.0 KB
ID:	155255   Click image for larger version

Name:	20180110_160244_Burst01.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	45.7 KB
ID:	155256  
__________________
Dave G1AGK.
My perception is my reality!
davidw is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2018, 7:52 pm   #20
MervynHagger
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Falkirk, UK.
Posts: 11
Default Re: 1964 Extended MW/AM 'Caroline/Lux' band receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_RK View Post
Checking Jonathan Hill's 'Radio! Radio!' for release dates, the Perdio Caralux was at least quite an early entry as bandspread sets go, arriving in 1964 as a development of the 1962/3 Town and Country, which had been offered with three different waveband combinations - LW/MW/SW, LW/MW/Marine Band and MW/2SW. 'Radio Bygones' no. 58. April/May 1999, has a substantial article from Rod Burman on the Town and Country and its variants.

The Fidelity 199 and 199A might also have been thought to be giving Caroline some publicity, but I expect they were instead aimed at exploiting the station's popularity. In any case they only appeared in 1965 and '66, were quite drab little sets without bandspread, and from their scarcity today they can't have sold particularly well. 'Radio! Radio!' refers also to a couple of small Hong Kong-produced radios from 1964 that were branded 'Caroline'. These too are far from common and seem most likely an importer's attempt to boost their own sales.
Thanks Paul. The Caralux receiver does in some ways fit the bill and the company history is also somewhat open to interpretation. Perdio went public and moved its factory from London to Sunderland where it went bust in John Bloom (washing machine) fashion - according to the Observer newspaper of the day.

Jane Bednall, daughter of designer Allan Bednall added this: Her dad's company was Cambridge Design Associates and one of her father's although dad dated it 1973 perhaps dating it I973 meant he could reveal it then. I am aware you are looking at 1963/4. When I am more rested I shall employees at 11, Roman Hill in the village of Barton (Cambridge), was Roger Askham.

So it's possible that the company was Perdio and that it was bought to self-destruct after its removal to a giant abandoned warehouse in Sunderland. I imagine that if skullduggery was afoot, that this would have been a better location than London and the Caralux receiver would be an exploitable product.

As you will gather I am still fishing for information.
MervynHagger is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 7:01 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2021, Paul Stenning.