UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 29th Nov 2017, 7:37 pm   #1
electronicskip
Heptode
 
electronicskip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gloucester, Glos. UK.
Posts: 676
Default 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Just seen on the news tonight its the 150 Anniversary of the iconic shipping forecast.

Although ive not listened to it for many years I have fond memories as a child of sitting by the radio listening to it and wondering what all the marvellous names meant.
Does anyone else have memories?
electronicskip is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 8:04 pm   #2
Philips210
Octode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 1,298
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Hi.

Yes, good memories as a youngster, listening to the start of the Shipping Forecast late at night. The title music, Sailing By was very soothing and relaxing to listen to before getting off to sleep.

Regards
Symon.
Philips210 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 8:44 pm   #3
mole42uk
Octode
 
mole42uk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 1,489
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

How can the Shipping Forecast be 150 years old? That would mean the first one was in 1867. Were fishing vessels carrying wireless receivers in those days?
__________________
Richard

Index:
recursive loop: see recursive loop
mole42uk is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 8:45 pm   #4
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 6,434
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Quote:
Originally Posted by mole42uk View Post
How can the Shipping Forecast be 150 years old? That would mean the first one was in 1867. Were fishing vessels carrying wireless receivers in those days?
Visual.

Lawrence.
ms660 is online now  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 9:16 pm   #5
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 3,634
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

The item on the BBC news this evening mentioned that these were displayed using a code consisting of cones and cylinders, though this was skipped over fairly rapidy. I must admit that was wondering the same thing at the start of the item.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 9:18 pm   #6
red16v
Pentode
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Winchester, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 181
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

I think the 1867 messages went something like this: "If you cant see these cones and cylinders you're in serious schtuck"
red16v is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:05 pm   #7
Herald1360
Dekatron
 
Herald1360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 11,970
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Is that where the expression "storm cone" comes from?

What did the cylinder mean?
__________________
....__________
....|____||__|__\_____
.=.| _---\__|__|_---_|.
.........O..Chris....O
Herald1360 is online now  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:10 pm   #8
Sinewave
Hexode
 
Sinewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Oxfordshire/Bucks borders, UK.
Posts: 371
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

I still listen to it in the morning out of interest and fascination. I'm still baffled by the marvelous names.
Sinewave is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:29 pm   #9
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,277
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

As ever, Wikipedia has the answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_Forecast
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:30 pm   #10
M0FYA Andy
Octode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 1,488
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

I'm always intrigued why they speak in 'shorthand', so for example the shipping forecast might say "rain from West" where the ordinary weather forecast would say "rain from the West". Is it because at some time it has been sent in something other than speech, for example in Morse?
Andy
M0FYA Andy is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:41 pm   #11
bikerhifinut
Octode
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK
Posts: 1,301
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Unfortunately I have lost or mislaid my old seamanship primers which had the signal codes that gave out storm warnings as visual signals from shore stations. This was still ostensibly in use 45 years ago, before the current era of electronic communications. Obviously it was only useful for coastal navigation in inshore waters within sight of land.
I couldn't find a link to the UK cylinder and cone signals but it seems such signals are still used in Indian and other far eastern ports for storm warnings. here's a link, and as memory serves the symbols and configurations used are similar to the old british ones. Hardly surprising as the Indians used British methods as part of the Empire.

http://www.marinebuzz.com/2010/11/10...ian-sea-ports/

That might give some sort of clue as to what form those early weather signals may have looked like.

Also this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_FitzRoy

Admiral Fitzroy who instigated the visual storm warnings and methods of Marine weather forecasting, and who has his name immortalised as that of a Shipping Forecast sea area.

I hope that might shed a bit of light on it.

In the early 20th Century the advent of wireless telegraphy brought about a revolution in both communicating weather forecasts to mariners at sea, but also brought about the first accurate mapping of weather systems by dint of merchant vessels being designated weather reporting ships and required to take a series of meterological observations every 6 hours which would then be coded and transmitted back to the met Office where all the data would be compiled and a synoptic chart produced from which a forecast could be made. The information in these charts was encoded and transmitted back so that it was possible, if laborious, to plot a weather map on board ship.

Andy.
bikerhifinut is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:46 pm   #12
bikerhifinut
Octode
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK
Posts: 1,301
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
I'm always intrigued why they speak in 'shorthand', so for example the shipping forecast might say "rain from West" where the ordinary weather forecast would say "rain from the West". Is it because at some time it has been sent in something other than speech, for example in Morse?
Andy
Imagine yourself with your ear pressed to the radio speaker, at midnight, on a small craft rolling and pitching, with only a dim light to write by and scribbling down the information given out.
I was never on anything as small as a fishing boat, but even on a reasonable sized ship it could get tricky at times, and add to that reception difficulties.

And the regular shipping forecast was also transmitted from coastal stations and Portishead by morse and radiotelephony. R/T for vessels below 1500 GRT that were not required to carry a radio officer. It used to be a bit of an ongoing game with sparks whereby if we could hearthe shipping forecast on the BBC, we'd have it written down and pinned up in the chartroom before sparky came in from the radio room with his copy, often nicely typed on a marconi telegram form whereupon he would ceremoniously tear off our handwritten version and pin up his "official" one. All in good humour for the most part and one must remember it wasn'y always possible to pick up the LW BBC signal, so the R/O was an invaluable link.

Ahhhhh happy days.

A.

Last edited by bikerhifinut; 29th Nov 2017 at 10:57 pm. Reason: a bit extra
bikerhifinut is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:58 pm   #13
Andrew2
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,263
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips210 View Post
Yes, good memories as a youngster, listening to the start of the Shipping Forecast late at night. The title music, Sailing By was very soothing and relaxing to listen to before getting off to sleep.
Yes, it almost casts a spell. I have bouts of insomnia and I listen to the shipping forecast in the early morning and I find it very comforting.
__________________
Andy G1HBE.
Andrew2 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 11:13 pm   #14
Andrewausfa
Heptode
 
Andrewausfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: St Ives, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 812
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Those names, Fishers, Cromarty, Viking, German Bight, Fastnet etc it was all a secret mysterious code to me as a kid.

Andrew
__________________
Invisible airwaves crackle with life. Or they should do.
BVWS Member
Andrewausfa is online now  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 11:19 pm   #15
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 6,434
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

The BBC4 Storm Trouper programs was good for the history of weather forecasting, if it ever comes round again it's worth watching.

Lawrence.
ms660 is online now  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 1:12 am   #16
emeritus
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 2,628
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Here's a description of the use of storm cones from "The British Code List for 1891", published by Lloyd's. Originally, only one cone was used, pointing DOWN for a Southerly gale, and UP for a Northerly gale. If a station's telegraphic communication was interrupted, two black balls were hoisted.

This book was left behind when Marconi Marine moved out of their site in Waterhouse Lane in the late 1990's. I found it in a cupboard with the slip cover of the guest book from Marconi's yacht "Electra". The Marconi archives were not interested in the code book, so I kept it. At that time, most British-registered vessels had been allocated a unique four-letter code that was used by shore stations to telegraph notice of their sightings to Lloyds for notices to be published in its weekly "Shipping Gazette & Lloyd's List" and "Lloyd's Weekly Shipping Index". .
Attached Files
File Type: pdf storm cones.pdf (196.5 KB, 44 views)

Last edited by emeritus; 30th Nov 2017 at 1:26 am.
emeritus is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 12:27 pm   #17
Junk Box Nick
Heptode
 
Junk Box Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 763
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Ahhh... Dogger, Fisher, German Bight aroused much curiosity in me as a child. WWII was not long over so this German Bite did seem a little worrying. Then there was all this rising and falling slowly stuff. To the curiosity of others I used to able to recite the sea areas in order...

The names were fascinating and mysterious and it wasn't until travelling on a cross-channel ferry in the 1980s that, in those pre-internet days, I saw for the first time where they were all located - there was a framed map on a wall.

I can remember the Minches and did wonder what happened to them or whether they were a figment of my imagination - I wasn't dreaming, wikipedia reveals all!

I missed Finisterre when it became Fitzroy but this was done with good reason.

Also I remember North Utsire and South Utsire arriving and wondered what they replaced. Seems they simply took a bite out of Viking.

Met Eirann do their own version of the Shipping Forecast just before midnight on RTE 1 252kHz - interesting to compare.

The SF was always comforting in a odd sort of way. Can't help feeling that time's not far from up for this feature of broadcasting.
Junk Box Nick is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 12:34 pm   #18
frankmcvey
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cottesmore, East Midlands, UK.
Posts: 510
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

I compiled a Google Earth forum post regarding The Shipping Forecast a couple of years ago, explaining this stalwart of the airwaves. It's here.

Cheers,

Frank
frankmcvey is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 1:30 pm   #19
G3VKM_Roger
Hexode
 
G3VKM_Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southeast Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 364
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
I'm always intrigued why they speak in 'shorthand', so for example the shipping forecast might say "rain from West" where the ordinary weather forecast would say "rain from the West". Is it because at some time it has been sent in something other than speech, for example in Morse?
My favourite is from the "Reports from Coastal Stations" (do they still broadcast those?). "Precipitation in sight". Certainly true today!

73 from snowy Norfolk,

Roger/G3VKM

Last edited by G3VKM_Roger; 30th Nov 2017 at 1:30 pm. Reason: sp
G3VKM_Roger is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 2:03 pm   #20
John M0GLN
Heptode
 
John M0GLN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Southport, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 750
Default Re: 150 years of the Shipping Forecast

A lot of info' is contained in the short time that the forecasts take, I did the Yacht Masters exam and from a forecast which was read out you had to draw a chart showing all the isobars, wind speed and direction etc, and words which we use every day like 'soon' have a specific meaning, in this case within 6 - 12 hours.

John
John M0GLN is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:06 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018, Paul Stenning.