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Old 20th Nov 2017, 1:38 pm   #41
Sinewave
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

EMC/RFI occurs on the very cheap LED fittings.

There are LED replacement tubes or complete fittings. If you're retro fitting to an existing fitting, you'll have to bypass the ballast.

Alternatively, the cheaper option and best all round, is if your current fittings are T8 lamps, replace with T5 fittings and tubes, which use half the energy of a T8.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 1:40 pm   #42
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

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Originally Posted by Boater Sam View Post
I didn't want to go there, but it is always worth considering at our ages.
Quite,
I just worked out how old I'd be, by then I might just leave my brain in a jar, on the bench!
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 4:16 pm   #43
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

I have been trying an LED panel light at home for a few months and it has been no trouble so far. I may get some more. Radio interference from it only at close range.
In one place I worked they had hundreds of those Thorn SRS lamps in double 5ft fittings, two ballasts in each fitting. We replaced many so they do fail. I have a few spare SRS ballasts and a complete fitting in my stock here as when the luminaires were scrapped I saved a few.
The entire building is being demolished now so I guess a lot of the old fittings I repaired will soon be on the scrap heap.

John
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 6:35 pm   #44
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

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Originally Posted by Sinewave View Post
Alternatively, the cheaper option and best all round, is if your current fittings are T8 lamps, replace with T5 fittings and tubes, which use half the energy of a T8.
Modern T5 fittings use electronic ballasts. Not sure what they are like for EMC/RFI.
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 1:14 am   #45
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

As I mentioned earlier, I have one that runs at around 100kHz, depending on the brightness setting, and the waveform applied to the tube is several hundred volts. It's reasonably sinusoidal though.

Not only can this be picked up by radios, but just about anything that is sensitive. But then, it's only a metre above the bench. Not a problem when you know about it, but it did catch me out a few times early on...
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 10:36 am   #46
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

I agree that LED lighting has come on leaps and bounds in the last couple of years. The colour rendition is particularly good now. It doesn't seem that long ago when the standard replacement for GLS filament lamps was the CFL. These seem to have disappeared out of existence and I've not seen any for sale anywhere. I never liked CFLs anyway, I always thought the colour rendition felt unnatural. It was probably the great advances in LED technology and the fact that CFLs contain mercury that helped to kill them off. CFLs must be the shortest lived lighting technology.

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Old 21st Nov 2017, 1:25 pm   #47
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

CFLs biggest disadvantage for me (and many others I expect) was its warm up time to full brightness.

Very nice in the bedroom on first waking up but otherwise a right pain.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 7:13 am   #48
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

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.....was the CFL. These seem to have disappeared out of existence and I've not seen any for sale anywhere. I never liked CFLs anyway, I always thought the colour rendition felt unnatural.
It is a good thing that LED lighting has come along to save us all from the curse of the CFL.

The problem is the spectrum of light out of the CFL , due to the excited phosphors and wavelengths, is nowhere near as good as an incandescent with a broad gaussian distribution of wavelengths.

I have had many patients struggle more seeing under CFL lighting when they are affected by macula degeneration, as there is less stimulation of the remaining retinal color cones.

Yet our politicians had the incandescent lamps banned in favor of CFL's. Odd in that the chemicals which comprise a tungstan lamp are relatively non toxic and the lamp is cheap, long lasting and the materials recyclable.

The standard lamp is still used as a metaphor for a bright idea : and so it should be. (this better not be a CFL.. it can't be its switching on and off too fast).

Well at least the Halogen lamp is still available.

One fellow I know who is a photographer, with a good eye for color, summed it up beautifully with this remark:

"The quality of light out of a CFL lamp is very unflattering to human skin tones and has the lighting ambiance of a public toilet"

Then we are told dead CFL's are toxic, so don't put them out in the rubbish.

Do we want CFL's in our homes ? I don't think so. Obviously LEDs are superior to CFLs and one day , ignoring energy issues and just focusing on light quality, LED lamps may even be as good as the outlawed tungstan lamp.

Curiously, for decorative lighting, the carbon filament lamp has made a huge comeback. These lamps can last many decades. The "centennial lamp" in a USA firehouse burned for over 100 years, it may still be working.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 10:19 am   #49
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

Hi.

I agree, something so simple as the tungsten filament lamp was really good and served us well for many decades to be replaced by horrible CFLs. Thank goodness the LED technology has advanced to the extent that they're now almost as good as incandescent lamps. I still use some filament lamps but they're now gradually being replaced with LED types. Must keep back a few filament lamps for my lamp limiter.

Regards
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 12:54 pm   #50
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

Not too OT I hope...

Do modern LED "GLS-replacement" lamps cope reasonably with being used in enclosed fittings?

I've gradually fitted either Osram (very heavy) or Philips (lightweight) ones, from Tesco and John Lewis respectively when I've needed new lamps around the house and they've been great so far. Reliable, nice colour rendition and no annoying warm-up time that Chris mentioned, though they have cost 5 to 10 apiece.

But what do people suggest for those fittings that are entirely enclosed (e.g. glass ceiling-mounted globes)? We have 5 in our house (hall, bathroom and porch) and I don't want to replace them. I could stick with halogen GLS-replacement lamps, but they're on for extended periods so it would be nice to use something more efficient if possible.

Nick.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 1:10 pm   #51
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

My experience with LEDs (both GU10 and GLS ES types) is that they can run rather hot - particularly the higher-power ones. 50-Watt-equivalent LED GU10s fitted into 'bullet' style spotlamp-bases have a short and unhappy life because the holder prevents airflow round the base where the electronics live. I've got twelve of the things in my kitchen [50W-equivalent 'daylight' spectrum, from a range of different manufacturers] which give great light - 1400 Lux everywhere! - but one of them fails every couple of months, which is better than the lifespan of 50W GU10 halogens.

I've had one 120-Watt-equivalent LED ES fail after about 9 months - it was mounted 'base uppermost' in a glass pendant fitting which rather enclosed the base so again did nothing for the cooling. Its replacement (free by the supplier, a good thing since it cost me around 15) is so far doing OK.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 1:28 pm   #52
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

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Not too OT I hope...

Do modern LED "GLS-replacement" lamps cope reasonably with being used in enclosed fittings?
I have a number of globe fittings using golf ball type lamps. As the original filament type bulbs failed I replaced them, initially with CFL's which took ages to reach full brightness. Now I'm fitting LED replacements and find they're perfectly satisfactory. Only time will tell how long they'll last.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 1:36 pm   #53
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

Glass globes have vent holes in the mounting plates and are fine with LED GLS bulbs, its the GU10 and MR16 replacements in small fittings, like flush fire safe ceiling fittings, that suffer heat stroke due to not enough space around the bowl to allow airflow.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 1:38 pm   #54
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

Thanks for the comments.

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Glass globes have vent holes in the mounting plates..
Ours don't unfortunately.

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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 1:57 pm   #55
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

None of mine do either - they have ceramic ES bulbholders to handle the heat!
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 2:00 pm   #56
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

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... they have ceramic ES bulbholders to handle the heat!
Not mine, just Nylon-like plastic which has gone a crispy brown over the years, even though the fittings were designed for use with 100W GLS BC lamps. (Texas own brand from the early 1990s when I rewired the house).
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 2:08 pm   #57
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

I would drill some holes in them then, all the ones I have seen must be older and maybe less cost engineered than current superstore ones.
You need holes for the flies to get in!
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 2:12 pm   #58
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

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None of mine do either - they have ceramic ES bulbholders to handle the heat!
No holes in mine either and I certainly won't be drilling any after all these years.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 2:19 pm   #59
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

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You need holes for the flies to get in!
No flies needed. Mine fill up with woodlice via the cable entry point already
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 3:07 pm   #60
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Default Re: Workshop: LED replacements for flourescent tubes.

I'm in the process of building a dedicated 10' x 6' workshop. My intention is to fit a number of home-built LED strip lighting assemblies which I've formed from 'sticky-backed LED-strip' (apologies to Val Singleton & Co.!) such that 15mm plastic trunking acts as an easy-to-fix semi-rigid carrier as well as its own cable management system. It will use a homebrew 12v DC, linear power supply. One strip draws 380mA at 12v.

I did this a while back for our under-kitchen-unit lighting; I fitted an SPST toggle switch to each one which gives flexibility as to how much ambient light one needs. I used 'warm white' for the kitchen whereas the workshop ones will be 'cool white'.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes
Guy
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