UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 29th Oct 2017, 6:21 pm   #1
Henenen
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 56
Default What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Just curious - I seem to remember it being the early 90s?

But I'm wondering if anyone has more specific memories of what year the first Long Play VCRs were released in the UK, and further, what sort of year it became 'standard' for all new VCRs to come with this feature?
Henenen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 7:10 pm   #2
ukcol
Dekatron
 
ukcol's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Harlaxton, Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 3,247
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Much earlier than I thought.

A Wikipedia article entitled "Videocassette Recorder" has this under a section called "VHS vs Betamax" :--

"The rival VHS format, introduced in Japan by JVC in September 1976, introduced in the United States in July 1977 by RCA, had a longer two-hour recording time with a T-120 tape, or four hours in lower-quality "long play" mode (RCA SelectaVision models, introduced in September 1977)."

That was 2 years before VHS machines were available in the UK.

I don't remember seeing any VHS models with LP on the UK market before about 1990.

I thought VHS LP was pretty awful quality and of limited use since you could record SP for as long as 3 hours on one tape.
__________________
Best Regards, Colin McLaughlin
BVWS Member
ukcol is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 7:12 pm   #3
hamid_1
Hexode
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 305
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

The earliest UK Long Play VHS machine I came across was the Ferguson 3V32 - a JVC manufactured unit from around 1983. But long play certainly wasn't standard on UK VHS recorders until the 90's. Unlike in America, where multi-speed VCRs (both VHS and Betamax) were the norm from the very early days.

There were no long-play PAL system Betamax video recorders. And in the late '90s, there was at least one PAL VHS machine that had 3x long play i.e. 9 hours on a 3 hour tape. I remember seeing one at a radio station - it was being used as a long playing audio recorder. I guess the picture quality would have been pretty dire, but for recording sound, that didn't matter.
hamid_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 7:13 pm   #4
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 4,605
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

I'd say no later than 1982. I remember the single speed Ferguson 3V31 was released in 1981 and the two speed version, the 3V32 a year later.

DFWB.
FERNSEH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 7:29 pm   #5
tony brady
Pentode
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Peacehaven, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 115
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

the 3V32 was 1983, I worked at J2T Newhaven. the standard play 3V31 started october 1982
tony brady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 7:51 pm   #6
Richard_FM
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 82
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

My parents bought an Amstrad VCR with long play in late 1987.

While there was a drop in quality it meant 6 hours of recording on a 3 hour tape, normally OK for "watch once & wipe" recording.

The quality of my Sony's LP recordings are almost as good as the standard speed, thanks to the 4 head drum.
Richard_FM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 9:15 pm   #7
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 3,278
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

As a punter, my recollection is a bit different but probaly misguided. I rented a Finlandia colour TV in 1976 from Granada [the Rental Company not the Studio] which was bundled with a VCR. This had a great overdub [for audio] feature and if it didn't have LP recording as well I think I then had a two speed machine at or around the beginning of the Eighties. Yes the LP facility was inferior Hamid but at the time, not so obvious and much sought after. The customer view was that expensive V C Tapes [and they were then] offered much better [economic] value at a slower speed. Buying [not very feasible really ] any VCR wasn't easy but the two speed units came in at a much higher purchase or rental cost and were therefore a bit of a luxury.
I remember a great deal of annoyance when it was claimed the same recorders, with the same control chip were being sold as one or two speed versions depending on how they were wired. Urban myth or disingenuous behaviour

Granted, the quality difference is more noticeable on playback now and Panasonic VCR's [as I've said before] will often resolve LP stuff that my other machines now don't. My archive only has a small percentage of material at LP [as I figured the Standard Speed would be better for preservation] but if you were doing a lot of recording or there was an occasional six or eight hour History of BBC2 or An Evening With Derek [Jarman] CH4... it could be invaluable. I remember in particular, there was a showing of the entire History Man Drama [prior to me having an LP facility]. It ran for 4hrs-20mins which meant I had to leave an E240 running from 20 minutes in as I simply HAD to go out I've got it all now -decades later! and thanks to BBC4].

Dave W
dave walsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 9:25 pm   #8
dj_fivos_sak
Hexode
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Lefkada, Greece
Posts: 499
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henenen View Post
Just curious - I seem to remember it being the early 90s?

But I'm wondering if anyone has more specific memories of what year the first Long Play VCRs were released in the UK, and further, what sort of year it became 'standard' for all new VCRs to come with this feature?
I believe the 1982-83 Ferguson 3V32/JVC HR-7655 was the first PAL VHS machine to feature LP. I could be wrong on that though.

Fivos
dj_fivos_sak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 10:11 pm   #9
Jonster
Hexode
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 490
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

The JVC HRD725 that I bought in time for 'Live Aid' in 1985 certainly had LP mode and I think other machines were around before that with LP. I think the HRD725 was the first with another feature though, HiFi stereo sound as well as Dolby stereo sound tracks. This worked well in LP mode and could be used as an audio only recorder to give up to 8 hours recording time.
Jonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 10:15 pm   #10
rambo1152
Pentode
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 249
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
I remember a great deal of annoyance when it was claimed the same recorders, with the same control chip were being sold as one or two speed versions depending on how they were wired. Urban myth or disingenuous behaviour
I worked for GTVR at that time.

Whether it's disingenuous or simply good business practice depends on which side of the fence you are on. It probably costs the manufactures peanuts to add the extra features in the upmarket models.

I'm tempted to draw a parallel with the industry mentioned in section F.4 of the forum rules
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
rambo1152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Oct 2017, 11:40 pm   #11
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 3,278
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Thanks Graham-very fair comment and I can't fault your reasoning
Thinking about it though, the relative cost WAS important but there's another serious aspect. An impression had very much been given that the 2 speed machines were a step change and you were buying a completely different generation of recorder-not quite

I suppose it's reminiscent of people being charged for a new valve in an earlier period when the problem was a 2p capacitor

Cheers,
Dave
dave walsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 3:54 am   #12
davyrocket2
Triode
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Westgate On Sea, Kent, UK.
Posts: 17
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

I owned a Hitachi VT17E. I did not get it until 1988 and it worked very well. I fitted new heads/belts idlers. I kept it for at least 12 years a very good machine. I think it came out in 1982 just after the VT14E.

Can anyone recall was the VT14E single or dual speed?
davyrocket2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 10:40 am   #13
Henenen
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 56
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Crikey, 1983 is far, far earlier than I would have guessed. You would think all the other manufacturers would jump on having this feature for the following year's releases.

It's funny, just looking up all the models and years people have mentioned, it jogged my memory and I think our first LP VCR was actually 1988. It was the Panasonic that came with the bar code reader (can't remember the model name) - I'm pretty sure it had Long Play.
Henenen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 10:47 am   #14
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 5,313
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

NVJ35 Nat Pan had a bar code reader.
__________________
G8JET
HamishBoxer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 11:49 am   #15
Henenen
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 56
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Think the NVJ35 was early 90s - the bar code reader was part of the remote.

The one we had in 1988 came with a separate device, like this:

https://img1.annuncicdn.it/97/14/971...e693c_orig.jpg

Think it was either the the NVG30 or NVG40. Although just looking at pics online those models didn't come with Long Play.

http://www.oldvcr.tv/collection/inde...c&Model=NV-G30
http://www.oldvcr.tv/collection/?Mod...c&Model=NV-G40

False Memory Syndrome!

Last edited by Henenen; 30th Oct 2017 at 12:02 pm.
Henenen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 12:11 pm   #16
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 15,380
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

The problem with the early LP machines wasn't the picture quality, which I found surprisingly good with decent tape, but the abysmal sound quality from the linear soundtrack. Hifi VHS fixed that of course.
paulsherwin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 2:19 pm   #17
dj_fivos_sak
Hexode
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Lefkada, Greece
Posts: 499
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyrocket2 View Post
I owned a Hitachi VT17E. I did not get it until 1988 and it worked very well. I fitted new heads/belts idlers. I kept it for at least 12 years a very good machine. I think it came out in 1982 just after the VT14E.

Can anyone recall was the VT14E single or dual speed?
I think the VT-14 is just a VT-11 with linear stereo and Dolby B.

Fivos
dj_fivos_sak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 5:19 pm   #18
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 6,209
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

I think PAL Beta machines were already Long Play (only, no Short Play option); because although I had heard the claim that "you can't fit a full feature-length movie on one cassette" levelled against Beta, I also remember L-750 cassettes being good for 3 hours and 15 minutes (i.e., two films, if you could be bothered to pause out the advertisement breaks).

The first time I saw VHS LP was about 1988, when my Nan and Grandad upgraded their old Ferguson 3V22 to an all-singing, all-dancing machine with long play and Hi Fi sound.
__________________
Julie {formerly known AJS_Derby}
julie_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 6:02 pm   #19
winston_1
Pentode
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 167
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_m View Post
I think PAL Beta machines were already Long Play (only, no Short Play option); because although I had heard the claim that "you can't fit a full feature-length movie on one cassette" levelled against Beta, I also remember L-750 cassettes being good for 3 hours and 15 minutes (i.e., two films, if you could be bothered to pause out the advertisement breaks).

The first time I saw VHS LP was about 1988, when my Nan and Grandad upgraded their old Ferguson 3V22 to an all-singing, all-dancing machine with long play and Hi Fi sound.
SP means standard play, not short play.

PAL Beta certainly had a much longer playing time than SP NTSC beta.

Whereas the numbers on VHS tape refer to the playing time is minutes, T120, 120 mins NTSC and E120, 120 mins PAL/Secam; with Beta it refers to the tape length in feet.
winston_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2017, 6:10 pm   #20
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 3,548
Default Re: What year did Long Play (LP) become available on UK VCRs?

The Amstrad 4600 mentioned above had two heads, unlike the 4-head JVC and Panasonic NV366 of a similar period. Needless to say, that picture was pretty poor on both speeds. In fact MCES who rebuilt heads offered the option of a better quality single speed head to improve the picture quality - an offer quite a few customers chose.
Glyn
Welsh Anorak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:26 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2017, Paul Stenning.