UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21st May 2017, 3:50 pm   #21
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,172
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

I suspect it'll be well advertised when finalised, we'll have to wait till then.
It's just one of five, another seven weren't approved, according to the links in post 1.
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 3:52 pm   #22
Nuvistor
Dekatron
 
Nuvistor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 5,501
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

I don't think it's been decided yet but they hope to be on the air in August. Radio Carolines page on the subject, info, what there is in the last sentence.
http://www.radiocaroline.co.uk/#am_plans.html
Nuvistor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2017, 4:10 pm   #23
telstar
Heptode
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 993
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

That sounds great news. I don't think that we will be able to hear it in Leeds though. Even Seagull used to be listenable but now there are too many stations that block that out. Personally I liked it with Dutch programming during the day and l.p tracks at night.
It really has taken far too long for it to be acceptable. We certainly owe this station a great deal for the changes it made.
telstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2017, 5:06 pm   #24
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 5,753
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

I too have looked to no avail as yet.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Member and V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Jun 2017, 1:57 pm   #25
stuie319
Pentode
 
stuie319's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 202
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Hello folks,

Caroline have announced that they have been allocated the old World Service frequency of 648 Khz, with a kilowatt erp. Be interesting to see if the tx has to be land based or can operate from the Ross.

Regards

Stu
stuie319 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Jun 2017, 5:15 pm   #26
hannahs radios
Hexode
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Weymouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 303
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

That seems a good frequency choice, nice groundwave coverage that's going to be important I think. I think the only other occupant of that frequency is in The Czech Republic or Slovakia, so not too much night time QRM. Whats the real transmitter power going to be? It's that and not ERP that's important.
hannahs radios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Jun 2017, 9:21 pm   #27
Jon_G4MDC
Hexode
 
Jon_G4MDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 371
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Puzzling why TX power matters more than ERP unless measured straight up for Moon bounce?

Isn't 648kHz the old frequency for Crowborough WS TX?

If so they blotted the Manx TT from Snaefell back in the day. My father and I were very annoyed in 197x while sitting on an RF quiet hill in Hertfordshire with an MW loop. We were waiting for the Senior race to start but it was delayed by "fog on the island".

It was just about to get going when blotted out by "London calling" or equivalent.

I gather Manx have been lending TXs to Caroline. With a bit of luck it will carry the TT commentary. BBC gave only lip service to it back in the day.

My OM, had he made 101, would be happy.
Jon_G4MDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Jun 2017, 9:40 pm   #28
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 13,320
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

More recently 648kHz has been used for the BBC World Service with the transmitter being located at Orfordness in Suffolk.

There's also a pirate round here rebroadcasting Caroline's internet stream on the same frequency.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Keep the soldering iron hot.
Station X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Jun 2017, 10:42 pm   #29
'LIVEWIRE?'
Dekatron
 
'LIVEWIRE?''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton)
Posts: 5,817
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Jon (G4MDC), IIRC the frequency used by BBC Workd Service when the transmitter was a Crowborough was 1296kHz, which was also allocated to Manx Radio from the 1960s until the general AM frequency changes in 1978, when Manx R. was allocated it's present AM channel on 1368kHz. For completeness, 647kHz, as it was prior to the changes, was used for the Third Programme, later Radio 3, whose main transmitter was at Daventry. Back on topic, what has been happening more recently is that, from time to time, Manx Radio have been relaying Radio Caroline on 1368kHz as Radio Caroline North, although the programmes originate from the Ross Revenge, moored at Blackwater. No doubt the 'North' serves to commemorate the original Caroline North, which broadcast from Ramsey Bay until early 1968. As for BBC WS on 648kHz, it must be two years since that closed down.

Last edited by 'LIVEWIRE?'; 2nd Jun 2017 at 10:53 pm.
'LIVEWIRE?' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jun 2017, 9:15 am   #30
llama
Heptode
 
llama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK.
Posts: 982
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Not the first time Caroline has been legally on 648. They had it maybe 10 years ago, for one Saturday I think. Big TX, the lot! I've a cassette recording of some of it but that would be much too hard to find.
Graham
__________________
Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!
llama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jun 2017, 10:48 am   #31
crusher19860138
Hexode
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Stourbridge, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 417
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

1Kw on 648Khz should have a good range,i can hear 558Khz with 1Kw from Crystal Palace where i live,so iam hopeful i can hear Caroline when it starts up.

North Wales may be unable to hear it as R.Wales is on 657Khz so may wipe reception out depending how close you are from the Wrexham 2Kw Tx.
crusher19860138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jun 2017, 1:46 pm   #32
Andrew2
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,240
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahs radios View Post
That seems a good frequency choice, nice groundwave coverage that's going to be important I think. I think the only other occupant of that frequency is in The Czech Republic or Slovakia, so not too much night time QRM. Whats the real transmitter power going to be? It's that and not ERP that's important.
I'm a bit confused by your last sentence. It's the ERP that is the important thing, not TX power. You can have a 1kw TX but if your aerial is rubbish you'll have a very low ERP and your signal won't make it to the end of the street.
But if your aerial system is nice and big and efficient, a 10-watt TX will be heard far & wide.
__________________
Andy G1HBE.
Andrew2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jun 2017, 9:48 pm   #33
hannahs radios
Hexode
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Weymouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 303
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

My comments about ERP are purely based on the fact that sometimes you'll see a transmitter has an ERP of say 160 kW but the actual transmitter is only 7.5 kW (I'm thinking of Rowrige on Isle of Wight) so it's still only 7.5 kW. Aerials cannot add power that's my point and my real dislike of it. I definitely see your point, an inefficient areal will lose some power, but a decent one will radiate most or all of it.
hannahs radios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2017, 9:45 am   #34
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 13,320
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Aerials may not be able to add power, but they can radiate it in a specific direction increasing field strength at the receiver.

The bottom line is that a 1kW erp licence is better than a 1kW transmitter licence. You can increase the transmitter power to compensate for feeder losses.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Keep the soldering iron hot.
Station X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2017, 11:04 am   #35
Jon_G4MDC
Hexode
 
Jon_G4MDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 371
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Thanks to LIVEWIRE for setting me straight on frequencies. You're right.
Jon_G4MDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2017, 3:26 pm   #36
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,448
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Quote:
The bottom line is that a 1kW erp licence is better than a 1kW transmitter licence. You can increase the transmitter power to compensate for feeder losses.
And (I assume) it is measured at ground level at a distance from the transmitter so one could pump a lot more at an angle to help with sky wave reception. I think this is called a VW fix!
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2017, 4:25 pm   #37
Sideband
Dekatron
 
Sideband's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,734
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Has anyone got any further news of when the new AM broadcasting will start. There doesn't seem to be anything on their website yet unless I've missed it.

I know that Caroline want to try and get on AM by August 14th which will be the 50th anniversary of the Marine Offences act when they officially became illegal but does anyone know any more?
__________________
'And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make'
The Beatles.

Last edited by Sideband; 4th Jun 2017 at 4:37 pm.
Sideband is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2017, 4:35 pm   #38
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 3,844
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

I don't think ERP is actually measured, as such; it's normally calculated, being the product of transmitter output power and antenna gain. More usually, the maximum ERP is stipulated by the terms of the licence, so, knowing the fixed antenna gain, the maximum transmitter output power can be determined. Broadcasters will, for economic reasons, want to use the minimum possible transmitter power to minimise their electricity bills, so a high-gain antenna is a worthwhile investment.

The antenna gain is normally quoted as its maximum, which will occur in a specific direction(s) and at a specific angle above horizontal. The broadcaster may switch between aerials in order to maximise ground wave or sky wave propagation, depending on time of day, frequency and target audience. For ordinary daytime reception on MW, ground wave is more useful and so an antenna with a low angle of radiation is preferred to serve the average listening audience. This implies a tall radiating element with lots of capacitive top loading, not ideal for a ship-borne station but at least they have a good earth.

The DXers listen after dark!
__________________
Phil (BVWS / BVTVWM / NVM / GQRPC 2101)

Optimist [n]: Someone who is not aware of the full facts

Last edited by Phil G4SPZ; 4th Jun 2017 at 4:36 pm. Reason: Typo
Phil G4SPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2017, 4:44 pm   #39
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 13,320
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

To quote from my Amateur Licence:-

Quote:
Effective radiated power (e.r.p) (in a given direction) is the product of the power supplied to the antenna and its gain relative to a half-wave dipole in a given direction.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Keep the soldering iron hot.
Station X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2017, 9:06 pm   #40
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,172
Default Re: Radio Caroline to return on Medium Wave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
not ideal for a ship-borne station but at least they have a good earth.
No reason to stay on a boat now, quite the opposite it would seem.
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:00 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018, Paul Stenning.