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Old 1st May 2017, 12:10 am   #41
1100 man
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

I have been accused of many things, but speed has never been one of them You may think this restoration is taking a long time: well I can't deny that it is, but the whole purpose is to enjoy the process and that means, that for me, it takes as long as it takes!
Anyway, I have now rebuilt the Fireball tuner, which is now ready to be wired in and bolted back on the chassis. This is a very compact little unit, and goodness only knows how they assembled it in the factory. Luckily, only the 10K screen resistor to the pentode needed replacing and this was fairly accessible. I could barely see most of the other resistors, let alone get to them to change them! They were close enough in value to be left alone.
The end result is that I get continuity between all the bits that I would expect, and most importantly, the contacts on the rotary coil disk.
So I am fairly confident it will work. Many thanks to John, (HCShort) for sending me a vital spring and a nice new metal cover for it- it really looks like a new tuner now :thumbsup
Cheers Nick
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Old 1st May 2017, 12:44 am   #42
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

The other item that has received attention is the main smoothing cap. I decided to re- stuff this with modern components as I was not happy with the leakage current after I tried reforming the 100mfd section.
The original contained a 100mfd resevoir cap, a 400mfd smoothing cap and a 16mfd cap for smoothing the supply to the sound IF and output stages. All rated at 275V.
I selected a 100, 470, and 22 mfd all at 400V rating. The 100mfd needed a reasonable ripple current rating and all three needed to have dimensions that would fit in the can. Plus they all needed to be available from one supplier (RS as it turned out) and be in stock. I think sourcing the caps, checking dimensions and getting them ordered actually took nearly as long as rebuilding the capacitor
I used a combination of plastic disks cut to the internal diameter of the can,cable ties and plastic tube to mount all the new bits. I drilled holes in the terminal rivets at the top of the can to bring the lead out wires through. It was all rather time consuming, but it is now back in the chassis and ready to be reconnected.
Unfortunately, I couldn't do much cleaning up of the can where the writing was. This is a bit pitted and the writing is quite fragile so it is a bit of a compromise.
I now have quite a bit of chassis wiring to do as more bits get put back on the chassis.
I have also made good progress with the IF PCB which is also nearly ready to be refitted.
That's all for the moment
Cheers Nick
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Old 1st May 2017, 11:55 am   #43
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

This is great work nick , you really are a glutton for punishment.
A lot of collectors would have considered this set to be , to far garn but you are showing that if you put your mind to it anything is possible.
I can appreciate the work your putting in to this set and the time it takes to do a fussy job.
Looking forward to more posts.

Robin
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Old 1st May 2017, 12:33 pm   #44
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Hard to believe that tuner is the one you removed from the set. It really does look brand new. If the rest of the set is restored to that standard (which I'm sure it will be), it'll be an absolute stunner.
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Old 1st May 2017, 2:13 pm   #45
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Nick, this is astonishing work, no wonder it takes time to get from point A to point B! I'm wondering where you go from here, once this set's finished. A set that's been washed up on the beach? A set that's been buried in landfill for 50 years?

Oliver
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Old 1st May 2017, 3:01 pm   #46
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100 man View Post
I have been accused of many things, but speed has never been one of them You may think this restoration is taking a long time: well I can't deny that it is, but the whole purpose is to enjoy the process and that means, that for me, it takes as long as it takes!
Anyway, I have now rebuilt the Fireball tuner, which is now ready to be wired in and bolted back on the chassis. This is a very compact little unit, and goodness only knows how they assembled it in the factory. Luckily, only the 10K screen resistor to the pentode needed replacing and this was fairly accessible. I could barely see most of the other resistors, let alone get to them to change them! They were close enough in value to be left alone.
The end result is that I get continuity between all the bits that I would expect, and most importantly, the contacts on the rotary coil disk.
So I am fairly confident it will work. Many thanks to John, (HCShort) for sending me a vital spring and a nice new metal cover for it- it really looks like a new tuner now :thumbsup
Cheers Nick
A beautiful job!

I enjoy reading these TV restoration threads.
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Old 1st May 2017, 11:21 pm   #47
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver35 View Post
I'm wondering where you go from here, once this set's finished. A set that's been washed up on the beach? A set that's been buried in landfill for 50 years?
Good evening,
This is something of a first for me- I've never gone to this level with a restoration before. To be truthful, in the past I've only ever repaired TV's just to get them working. I had never considered doing a full restoration before as the sets which had come my way had all been in fairly good condition.
I have restored several 'basket case' Austin 1100's to as original condition, so when this set came my way, it seemed natural to apply the same ethos to it.
There were two major things in it's favour: I was really taken by the styling with the big screen and minimal cabinet and the fact it was in such a dire state to make it a real challenge
I am finding it very interesting to do and writing up the results is also strangely rewarding. Many thanks to everyone for your kind comments and encouragement- it's most appreciated! I never thought I'd see the day when I would be re stuffing a smoothing capacitor!
Many thanks
Cheers Nick
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Old 2nd May 2017, 9:04 am   #48
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Hi Nick
I have been following this project with great interest - it is truly awesome - the ethos that you follow (from your work on 1100s) is indeed quite inspirational and I'm sure gives us all food for thought as to what is possible - I'm beginning to think that a couple of my own 'lost causes' are not , perhaps, lost after all - I look forward to the next episode - keep up the good work

Kindest regards
John
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Old 2nd May 2017, 9:53 am   #49
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

I'm really enjoying this, too. I'm in awe of the electronics expertise in this part of the forum especially, but it's your apparent success in dealing with what appears to be hopelessly rusty metalwork which most interests me at the moment. Since that interest is OT, I think I'd better PM you!
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Old 2nd May 2017, 1:00 pm   #50
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Great work coming on a treat. Did you have/or checked the tube before carrying out all this hard work
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Old 2nd May 2017, 4:10 pm   #51
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

How did you get that tuner so good?It looks superb.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 9:12 am   #52
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Thank you for your encouraging comments
As far as I know, Pastyboy (who I got the set from), had already given the the CRT a 'tickle' on his reactivator to wake it up. When I tested it on my B&K tester, the emission seemed pretty good and there were no shorts apparent, so it will be fingers crossed that it will produce a reasonable picture. If it comes to the worst, it has already been hinted that someone has a spare tube so some arm twisting may be involved
The LOPT is actually more of a worry as rewinding is the only real option, and that is quite costly (Rightly so, due to the amount of work involved). I've not cleaned it up yet, but on the face of it it looks in good order- it has a good coating of wax which hasn't melted. I will try Fernseh's method of passing a current through it for a while to dry it out, but even if it works initially,who knows how long it will last!
Under that rusty screening can and the mud, the core of the tuner was actually in pretty good order. The front face, where the spindle goes in, was rusty. This was carefully sandblasted and treated as per the rest of the chassis. John kindly sent me a screening can (which covers most of the unit) which just needed a clean with some wet and dry to make it like new. The biggest problem was trying to tone down the shine after I had cleaned it- It looked a bit 'bling'!!
The valve screening cans also cleaned up well and I am pretty pleased with the end result.
So I really must be diligent and apply myself to the chassis over the next few evenings- I really don't have any excuse, although beer often seems to get in the way
Cheers Nick
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 11:45 pm   #53
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Good evening,
It's a poor state of affairs when you have to do a search for your own thread because you haven't posted in it for so long I see that my last update was over a month ago so you would think that during that time, major progress would have been made !! Well it has moved forward, but slowly. Somehow, there always seems to be more distractions during the summer with the light evenings- sitting at a workbench is more of a winter thing!

1) The IF & signals PCB has now been refurbished. I removed the valve holders and IF cans so that the gunge could be cleaned off underneath them. Inside the cans everything was in good order and the cans themselves cleaned up pretty well. All the resistors were checked and about a third were replaced. Strangely, there are several 1meg, 2.2meg & 10 meg which I expected to be very high in value but they were all a good 10 percent low!
All caps above 1000pf were replaced and the board generally given a good clean and tidy up.

2) The LOPT has had a thorough clean and has come up very well. It's a good sensible construction and is well made. The attached valve holder for the EHT rectifier now looks brand new although the U26 has traces of whiteness inside due to the corrosion on it's pins allowing air into it.
I have been experimenting with testing LOPT's (see 'Testing 405 line LOPT 'thread) and it seems that this transformer is probably functional. What happens when it has to withstand 16KV is quite another matter so we will have to wait and see!

3)The IF pcb is now back on the chassis and many more interconnecting wires have been re connected.

4) All the preset slider controls were open circuit and most of the other controls were not well. Many thanks to Ed for sending a whole pile of replacements so I should now have enough bits to sort that side of things out.

5) I've cleaned up the scancoils which also seem to be in good condition.

I am nearly at the point when the chassis can be re attached to the CRT so that should be fun.
I'll try and sort out some pictures soon.
Cheers Nick
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 12:34 am   #54
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Quote:
I have been experimenting with testing LOPT's (see 'Testing 405 line LOPT 'thread) and it seems that this transformer is probably functional. What happens when it has to withstand 16KV is quite another matter so we will have to wait and see!
Perhaps you could try passing a small DC current through the windings. The primary of the line output transformer can be connected to a bench power supplier and adjusted for a current of 20mA. This procedure will warm up the transformer so that any moisture will be driven out of the windings.

DFWB.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 4:14 pm   #55
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Quote:
Perhaps you could try passing a small DC current through the windings. The primary of the line output transformer can be connected to a bench power supplier and adjusted for a current of 20mA. This procedure will warm up the transformer so that any moisture will be driven out of the windings.
I was planning to give that a try but surely it is the EHT overwind that is most likely to need drying out? In this transformer that is on the other limb of the transformer. Can I pass a similar current through that instead?
When I was testing different LOPT's, I was surprised at the difference in DC resistance between different overwinds. They varied from 60 ohms to 200 ohms! A much larger variation than I had expected.
Cheers Nick
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 6:19 pm   #56
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

I've just measured the DC resistance of the EHT overwind of a BRC 850 series line output transformer and it is is 105 ohms.
Supposing we play safe and use 2watts of heat to warm up the overwound I've worked out no more than 4.5mA should pass through the winding.

from: P = I squared X R So P R = I squared. For a 100 winding the current should be 4.5mA (0.045A)

DFWB.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 12:00 pm   #57
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Anyone who has watched the series "The Man in The High Castle" will recognise the shape of that TV, it is very close to the COLOUR models of "Modern" TV's seen in this TV Series. Those in the Series, set in an alternative timeline where Germany won the war and dropped the atom bomb on America and took control of nearly all of the Eastern seaboard, with Japan getting the West coast. The tech in this series looks very 50's/60's, I wonder where they sourced it from?
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Old 31st Jul 2017, 11:30 pm   #58
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Good evening,
Now where was I? Ah yes, I remember, I was in the middle of rebuilding this basket case of a TV before I got sidetracked by a GEC that wasn't quite a Sobell 1000...
For anyone that hasn't been trudging down this long and winding thread from the beginning, maybe a quick recap is in order!

This Pilot TV was acquired along with some other stuff in rather a sorry state. It had obviously been stored for many years in very wet conditions. The chassis metalwork was very rusty, everything was covered in a layer of filth and all the capacitors had disintegrated. The back cover was missing and the cabinet was falling apart- even the woodworm didn't think it worth taking up residence! The tuner was a ball of rust, the speaker and grille was missing and the plastic implosion screen was covered in deep scratches. Apart from that, it wasn't that bad really

All the chassis panels were totally stripped, sand blasted, treated with Phosphoric acid, rubbed down, primed, and painted in two pack colour matched paint. ( Zinc plating was the preferred option but was not possible at the time). New components were then used to rebuild each panel. The main smoothing cap was re-stuffed with new electrolytics and the signals PCB was thoroughly cleaned and components replaced where necessary.

The rebuild is well under way, but everything that needs to be refitted has to be refurbished or sourced and replaced. This has tended to make it a bit of a slow process.
My focus recently has been on the pots and presets. Seemingly trivial, it's taken quite a while to obtain suitable components as replacements. Due to the wet conditions, all the preset resistors were open circuit and four out of the six controls were faulty. Very many thanks to Ed Dinning for digging through his spares and sending me a parcel of goodies- I now have enough bits to proceed with the rebuild.
Many thanks also to John (Heatercathodeshort) for supplying some vital missing parts to rebuild the tuner.

The line output transformer has has a thorough clean up and I took Fernseh's advice and warmed it up by passing a current through it. I did the same with the one from the GEC I've been working on before applying power, and it works a treat so hopefully, this one will fare as well. Definitely a great idea to drive off moisture and reduce the possibility of shorts.

So there we are, progress, although slow, is being made and the time when it all comes together is getting nearer- and then the exciting bit: switching on for the first time and watching the valve heaters light and the smoke coming off the mains dropper! Talking of which, that's a whole new can of worms. It's broken in half and all the sections are open circuit...

I'll upload some pictures of the current state of things soon.
All the best.
Nick
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Old 1st Aug 2017, 6:56 pm   #59
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

Hi Nick, good to hear that you're still on with this set, I look forward to seeing your progress! I think I found a similar chassis in a bush a few weeks ago, difficult to tell from the little that was left. Had the pip not been broken off and the tube full of water, I would have collected it for you as your next project..

Oliver
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Old 1st Aug 2017, 8:55 pm   #60
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Default Re: Pilot PT650 "Spacemaker" Television

What memories this thread evokes for me. I bought one of these sets from a York auction room at some time in the VERY early 1960s. It can't have had a lot of use and its ultra-high gloss cabinet looked pristine - but I had not seen the set working. I soon found out why it ended up in the sale. There was a field timebase problem which at that time was a little taxing for me, so I sent for a service sheet, supplied by an advertiser in the classifieds of Practical Television. When this arrived - by post, of course, no emails in those now far-off days - he had stamped his company name and address liberally on every border of every page of the Trader sheet, along with the words 'on hire' (it was rented and I had to return it after use!).
Anyway, the field oscillator was of multivibrator form and it had been thoroughly 'got at' by someone swapping out components in the hope of hitting the right one and curing the touchy field lock and regular rolling of the picture, together with severe bottom picture cramping and persistent flyback lines, due no doubt to the almost absent lock.
It is so long ago now that I cannot recall what I did to sort it out, other than I do remember checking the switched components and finding several that were of incorrect value. Whatever it was that I did to fix the set, it worked a treat for several years afterwards and it held pride of place in my parents home and was still there when I left, some five or so years later.
I liked that set, even the quirky fireball and the Mazda valve range.
This is a fascinating thread.
Tony
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