Garrard 50 Mk 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

richgriff · 19th Oct 2015, 12:38 pm

Hello all

I've just purchased a Garrard 50 mk 2 in a beautiful cabinet (I'll post more pictures soon) and I need a new needle/stylus. Could someone point me in the right direction? I don't really know where to start.

Thanks
Rich

julie_m · 19th Oct 2015, 1:39 pm

We would need to see what kind of cartridge is fitted, in order to be able to tell you which stylus it requires. Can you get a clear picture of the underside of the headshell? (It looks as though it might be a removable one, which will make things easier.)

richgriff · 25th Oct 2015, 5:56 pm

Hi Julie

Thanks a million for helping me out with this. I've attached some pictures

martinhog · 28th Oct 2015, 4:30 pm

Pretty sure that's a Sonotone 3509 cartridge, just hoping the connections have not been soldered too ?. Cartridge was sometimes badged as Garrard KS40A ?

Audio1950 · 28th Oct 2015, 5:53 pm

Yes, that's either a Sonotone 3509 or a Garrard KS40A. The stylus is the same for both, and is available from Musonic. Just type Sonotone 3509 into their search box, and you'll find it. BUT, I would check that the cartridge is working before buying a stylus, because it looks as though the wires have indeed been soldered direct to the cartridge pins. If they have, then the heat may well have destroyed the cartridge. To test it, turn the volume right up and gently stroke the little rubber "ears" that stick out of the cartridge. If you hear a loud noise coming from the speaker, then all is well. If there is silence, or a very quiet noise, then sorry, but the cartridge has had it.

Barry

Nickthedentist · 28th Oct 2015, 6:29 pm

Do you just have the Garrard deck, or a complete system with an amplifier (and volume/tone controls etc.) too?

If the former, you might want to change the cartridge for a magnetic one anyway, so that it can be plugged into a standard hifi amp. The Audio Technica AT-91 would be ideal for this.

N.

D_S_J_R · 29th Oct 2015, 10:16 pm

Nick, please don't flame me for saying this, but I'm REALLY fond of later ceramic cartridges when correctly loaded. Who gives a darn about totally correct 'fidelity,' but the ceramics I have, including a much loved KS41C/3559 exhibit a wonderfully 'direct' kind of sound and sound fantastic on many 60's and early 70's 'pop' recordings and singles, which were obviously mastered for reproduction with this type of pickup I think.

The other thing is that the 50 turntable has an arm of high but perfect mass for these cartridges and a 41C stylus will track in this deck happily at 4g if mine is anything to go by

By the way, if you don't play 78's, Musonic do a single diamond stylus for this cartridge (no flip-under) and this is what I usually use in mine.

Having typed all this, I must resurrect my 60mk2 deck and play some singles...

Nickthedentist · 30th Oct 2015, 8:08 am

Dave,

I love decent ceramics too. I suggested the swap merely because the OP might find it easier/cheaper if he intends to feed the output into a conventional hifi amp.

OTOH, many ceramic cartridges aren't as good as they used to be. In particular, my beloved 9TAHCs now sound ropey (even with new styli), presumably because the rubber bits have stiffened up.

N.

richgriff · 30th Oct 2015, 12:28 pm

Hello all

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciation from the vintage audio newbie here.

Alas the cartridge is indeed soldered on but it seems to be working fine and the system is a complete system in a huge cabinet (which I love, I'll post pictures tonight). I've just jumped onto musonic and ordered the stylus.

The next stop will be asking your advice on how to fit it.

Thanks all!

Rich

D_S_J_R · 30th Oct 2015, 3:00 pm

The stylus should sort-of snap in- not literally, but you get the drift I hope..

Nick, I have a 9TAHC original that still seems ok. maybe it has hardened up a little as most of the 'compliance' seems in the styli rather than the 'coupler' material. nothing like as bad as an Acos GP104 I have, which still sounds good to me, if perhaps a little 'sharper' in tone than I remember from long ago. The new SC12M sounds much the same, so I'm not worried particularly.

One oldie that hasn't aged this way is the GP96-1 as fitted to Hacker record players, It was a bit dull in balance to start with (and the Gondolier amp is only 'flat' in the treble with the treble control at maximum I recall), but the one I have does have a 'grace' to it which is good on old worn records..

Anyway, I'm drifting well off topic and agree that an AT91/Rega Carbon is a fine and very cheap magnetic type for this deck, tacking at 2g or so, which it should manage if the mechanics are serviced carefully and trip pawls left 'dry.' Any more tracking pressure than 2g and the sound clogs up badly I found. If the arm and trip mechanism is VERY good in terms of friction and you can get a cheap Ortofon stylus balance for under a tenner, I'd even go as far as suggesting the sometimes similarly priced AT95E, again tracking at 2g or so. I've used both in the AT60 style of Garrards as well as the Stanton 500 (mk1 and V3) at 3g as well as the Ortofon OM Pro and GT at 4g..

Loads of options there, should anyone else be interested - cough.....

richgriff · 31st Oct 2015, 1:04 pm

Hello all

It's in! The stylus arrived this morning and I've just given it it's first spin. It sounds great!

Now I'm just looking forward to building my vinyl collection.

Thanks for all your help, I would never have got it going without your advice.

As promised, some pictures of the full setup.

Rich

Audio1950 · 31st Oct 2015, 3:26 pm

Wow! That is one smart radiogram. Glad you've got it sorted.

Barry

Herald1360 · 31st Oct 2015, 5:58 pm

Does the radiogram itself have any maker's name or model number?

Nickthedentist · 31st Oct 2015, 7:39 pm

It's a late 60s DYNATRON stereogram, I think.

Here's the tabletop version: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usedphotosuk/104405079_934.jpg

Nickthedentist · 31st Oct 2015, 7:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio1950

Wow! That is one smart radiogram.

Or, smarter still: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/339247784403444054/

richgriff · 31st May 2016, 11:08 am

Hello gents

I wonder if I could impose on you all further. I'm using the radiogram all the time but it seems to run a little slowly on 33rpm. Do you know how I can adjust it to increase the speed?

Thanks

Rich

Edward Huggins · 31st May 2016, 12:38 pm

You can't readily increase the speed on this. How you know it's running slowly? If it's "running slow" on 33, it's also liable be slow on all the other speeds as well. Download a Stroboscope first and then try it. If it is slow, we might then advise more. At last we know what that "nice big cabinet" is! It's one of the slighly better made late 1960s Dynatrons, before the inevitable slide into "Top Show Cheapo Nasties". Edward

19th Oct 2015, 12:38 pm	#1
richgriff Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: London, UK. Posts: 5	Garrard 50 Mk 2 Hello all I've just purchased a Garrard 50 mk 2 in a beautiful cabinet (I'll post more pictures soon) and I need a new needle/stylus. Could someone point me in the right direction? I don't really know where to start. Thanks Rich Attached Thumbnails

19th Oct 2015, 1:39 pm	#2
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 8,005	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 We would need to see what kind of cartridge is fitted, in order to be able to tell you which stylus it requires. Can you get a clear picture of the underside of the headshell? (It looks as though it might be a removable one, which will make things easier.) __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

25th Oct 2015, 5:56 pm	#3
richgriff Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: London, UK. Posts: 5	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Hi Julie Thanks a million for helping me out with this. I've attached some pictures Attached Thumbnails

28th Oct 2015, 4:30 pm	#4
martinhog Pentode Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ashford, Kent, UK. Posts: 214	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Pretty sure that's a Sonotone 3509 cartridge, just hoping the connections have not been soldered too ?. Cartridge was sometimes badged as Garrard KS40A ?

28th Oct 2015, 5:53 pm	#5
Audio1950 Rest in Peace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 3,776	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Yes, that's either a Sonotone 3509 or a Garrard KS40A. The stylus is the same for both, and is available from Musonic. Just type Sonotone 3509 into their search box, and you'll find it. BUT, I would check that the cartridge is working before buying a stylus, because it looks as though the wires have indeed been soldered direct to the cartridge pins. If they have, then the heat may well have destroyed the cartridge. To test it, turn the volume right up and gently stroke the little rubber "ears" that stick out of the cartridge. If you hear a loud noise coming from the speaker, then all is well. If there is silence, or a very quiet noise, then sorry, but the cartridge has had it. Barry

28th Oct 2015, 6:29 pm	#6
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 19,191	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Do you just have the Garrard deck, or a complete system with an amplifier (and volume/tone controls etc.) too? If the former, you might want to change the cartridge for a magnetic one anyway, so that it can be plugged into a standard hifi amp. The Audio Technica AT-91 would be ideal for this. N.

29th Oct 2015, 10:16 pm	#7
D_S_J_R Heptode Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Suffolk Coastal, UK. Posts: 603	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Nick, please don't flame me for saying this, but I'm REALLY fond of later ceramic cartridges when correctly loaded. Who gives a darn about totally correct 'fidelity,' but the ceramics I have, including a much loved KS41C/3559 exhibit a wonderfully 'direct' kind of sound and sound fantastic on many 60's and early 70's 'pop' recordings and singles, which were obviously mastered for reproduction with this type of pickup I think. The other thing is that the 50 turntable has an arm of high but perfect mass for these cartridges and a 41C stylus will track in this deck happily at 4g if mine is anything to go by By the way, if you don't play 78's, Musonic do a single diamond stylus for this cartridge (no flip-under) and this is what I usually use in mine. Having typed all this, I must resurrect my 60mk2 deck and play some singles... __________________ Best wishes, Dave

30th Oct 2015, 8:08 am	#8
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 19,191	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Dave, I love decent ceramics too. I suggested the swap merely because the OP might find it easier/cheaper if he intends to feed the output into a conventional hifi amp. OTOH, many ceramic cartridges aren't as good as they used to be. In particular, my beloved 9TAHCs now sound ropey (even with new styli), presumably because the rubber bits have stiffened up. N.

30th Oct 2015, 12:28 pm	#9
richgriff Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: London, UK. Posts: 5	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Hello all Thanks for all the replies, much appreciation from the vintage audio newbie here. Alas the cartridge is indeed soldered on but it seems to be working fine and the system is a complete system in a huge cabinet (which I love, I'll post pictures tonight). I've just jumped onto musonic and ordered the stylus. The next stop will be asking your advice on how to fit it. Thanks all! Rich

30th Oct 2015, 3:00 pm	#10
D_S_J_R Heptode Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Suffolk Coastal, UK. Posts: 603	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 The stylus should sort-of snap in- not literally, but you get the drift I hope.. Nick, I have a 9TAHC original that still seems ok. maybe it has hardened up a little as most of the 'compliance' seems in the styli rather than the 'coupler' material. nothing like as bad as an Acos GP104 I have, which still sounds good to me, if perhaps a little 'sharper' in tone than I remember from long ago. The new SC12M sounds much the same, so I'm not worried particularly. One oldie that hasn't aged this way is the GP96-1 as fitted to Hacker record players, It was a bit dull in balance to start with (and the Gondolier amp is only 'flat' in the treble with the treble control at maximum I recall), but the one I have does have a 'grace' to it which is good on old worn records.. Anyway, I'm drifting well off topic and agree that an AT91/Rega Carbon is a fine and very cheap magnetic type for this deck, tacking at 2g or so, which it should manage if the mechanics are serviced carefully and trip pawls left 'dry.' Any more tracking pressure than 2g and the sound clogs up badly I found. If the arm and trip mechanism is VERY good in terms of friction and you can get a cheap Ortofon stylus balance for under a tenner, I'd even go as far as suggesting the sometimes similarly priced AT95E, again tracking at 2g or so. I've used both in the AT60 style of Garrards as well as the Stanton 500 (mk1 and V3) at 3g as well as the Ortofon OM Pro and GT at 4g.. Loads of options there, should anyone else be interested - cough..... __________________ Best wishes, Dave

31st Oct 2015, 1:04 pm	#11
richgriff Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: London, UK. Posts: 5	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Hello all It's in! The stylus arrived this morning and I've just given it it's first spin. It sounds great! Now I'm just looking forward to building my vinyl collection. Thanks for all your help, I would never have got it going without your advice. As promised, some pictures of the full setup. Rich Attached Thumbnails

31st Oct 2015, 3:26 pm	#12
Audio1950 Rest in Peace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 3,776	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Wow! That is one smart radiogram. Glad you've got it sorted. Barry

31st Oct 2015, 5:58 pm	#13
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,650	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Does the radiogram itself have any maker's name or model number? __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

31st Oct 2015, 7:39 pm	#14
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 19,191	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 It's a late 60s DYNATRON stereogram, I think. Here's the tabletop version: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usedphotosuk/104405079_934.jpg

31st May 2016, 11:08 am	#16
richgriff Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: London, UK. Posts: 5	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 Hello gents I wonder if I could impose on you all further. I'm using the radiogram all the time but it seems to run a little slowly on 33rpm. Do you know how I can adjust it to increase the speed? Thanks Rich

31st May 2016, 12:38 pm	#17
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 9,166	Re: Garrard 50 Mk 2 You can't readily increase the speed on this. How you know it's running slowly? If it's "running slow" on 33, it's also liable be slow on all the other speeds as well. Download a Stroboscope first and then try it. If it is slow, we might then advise more. At last we know what that "nice big cabinet" is! It's one of the slighly better made late 1960s Dynatrons, before the inevitable slide into "Top Show Cheapo Nasties". Edward