Mini Reel to Reels

[untune87]

Hi

I picked up a couple of 'International' SpyCorder type mini reel to reel machines on here absolutely ages ago, with the intention of using them for a little project but never actually got round it it. I just found them again today, one seems to be fine and if I remember correctly, the other one needed some wires re attaching. They only run off battery power - what appears to be 2x C cells (motor drive) and a 9v (amp/playback etc). I'm curious - would it be possible to power everything from one source? And if possible, both machines from the same power source?

[AndiiT]

Hi,
If they are of the type that I think they may be you must use separate power sources for the Amplifier and motor for a number of reasons some of which are -

a) The rewind facility may rely on a battery reversal,
b) The motor feed probably has no regulation so you would have to ensure that the motor was fed with the correct voltage otherwise you would have issues with the speed,
and
c) You may experience interference in the amplifier circuitry from the motor(s) if using a common supply.

Others may have different ideas about this though.

Regards

Andrew

[camtechman]

In addition to the info provided by Andrew,

There were two types of these mini "International" machines (although they were also sold under different names - "badge engineering").

One model was called the International A4411 (pic #1) and the other was the International TC-408 (pic #2). Which model do you have?

The A4411, although 2x 1.5V C Cells are used to drive the motor, they run in parallel as 1.5V with higher current. I've not yet examined the TC-408 fully but, although it uses 2x 1.5V C cells, it could be the same set up for the motor as the A4411 (1.5V Parallel) or it could be a split voltage system: i.e: 1.5v parallel for forward drive & series 3V for rewind (the latter option is more likely as there is a wire wound potentiometer fitted to provide Speed Control.

[untune87]

Hi folks

Thanks for the info - they are the A4411's on the left of the two pics. I was debating whether it was worth pursuing the project because the playback stability is not great at all. However this may be down to the only pair of C batteries I could find being a few years old, albeit unopened!

I've been pondering looking for more of these types of units using a capstan drive. Originally I envisioned using the pair to make a very simple Copicat style delay with the additional head providing playback

[Welsh Anorak]

Hi
These 3" sets tended to be the 'toy' end of the market - this doesn't make them less interesting, though!
The only capstan drive 3" domestic recorders I remember are the Philips or Stella 'handbag' style, if you exclude the more professional FiCords and so on. Garrard did introduce a cassette comprising two enclosed 1/4" reels, though I think they were 4" diameter.
Most of the mainstream Japanese portable sets (Sharp, National etc) used 5" reels and were capstan driven.
Glyn

[camtechman]

I have a great nostalgic soft spot for the International A4411 as it was the first tape recorder I ever bought.

It cost me 8 Guineas (£8-8s-0d) from the famous Headquarter & General Stores, Coldhabour Lane (aka "H&G") and, at the age of 11, I sent off my postal order and I received the machine on Xmas Eve and drove my family mad with it.

The continual poking of the crystal mike into my Dad's face nearly ended up with him ripping it out of my hand.....I wish I still had those recordings!

[Tractorfan]

Hi,
Most of these cheap & cheerful tape recorders relied on the motor shaft running against the underside of the platter to move the tape. There was no capstan so the tape speed gradually increased as the take up spool filled with tape. The motor on the one I had as a kid tilted one way for record/playback and the other way (with a larger diameter spindle) to rewind. Of course, it wasn't until I played the tapes on my parent's brand new Grundig TK120 that I realised what was happening to the tape speed!
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.
Cheers, Pete

[camtechman]

By the way, the 2nd model; the TC-408 (although still only a rim-drive) is better than the A4411 as the motor is mounted verically between the spool platters (unlike the A4411's horinzontal swinging motor) and has a larger diameter motor 'pulley', which seems to act somewhat like a flywheel, thus giving a more stable transport of the tape. I nearly bought another but forgot to bid on it and it ended up "unsold" at the starting price of £0.99 DOH!!

[untune87]

Thanks for the info folks - it's clear these were never more than just toys due to their simple design but they do look cool all the same. Especially when you consider that these often popped up in Mission Impossible and Thunderbirds (except in that case, conveniently appearing to be the size of a regular reel to reel compared to a bunch of puppets )

These are much more suited to speech although they do have a nice lo-fi quality, so might not really be fit for my purposes - having to power everything separately isn't convenient either!

[camtechman]

These machines do have a valid place in the collector's market, not just because of their novelty value and that they fit nicely in the "Toy" category, as well as the "History Of Tape Recorders", but it also shows the approach of the Japanese to find and develop a market for their products and we know how successful they were at that.

I have 42 different models of these machines and some of them show early sofisticated mechanisms that were used in the better machines that followed these simple recorders.

Had it not been for my purchase of one of these machines, as my first tape recorder & at a reasonable price (and that they looked good), I may not have moved up to more professional machines and developed my interest in the recording medium.

"Big Up" these "Toys"

[Welsh Anorak]

Hi
FORTY- TWO?? Wow - we're just amateurs.
There was one of these in our house when I was very small which got me interested in reel-to-reels. Not sure what the make was - possibly Royal something. This had the mechanism described by Pete - the hoizontal motor was turned in a cradle by the front knob to contact the right or left reel for play or rewinding - ingenious as the polarity didn't even need changing. I don't think ours had the luxury of fast forward.
While walking on the beach aged around eight (me, not the beach) I found a very sorry portable machine missing its covers. I was delighted - I took it home and spent many happy days trying to get it working. Of course salt and sand hadn't done the motors (yes - there were two; one for each reel) any good, though I did manage to get the electronics going.
Then as a christmas present for the family (me) a brand new Grundig TK124 arrived and I haven't looked back - till now.
Glyn

[camtechman]

The favourite in my collection, not just because I've not seen another one but because the mechanism & the chassis is all metal and obviously an attempt at producing a better transport & recording machine.

It's made in Japan and the model name is "Comet" (pics 1 thru 4) and, although it seems to use the same positioned operating lever as a the more basic "Ehrcorder/Benkson 25" (pic 5), that's where the similarity ends.

As you will see from the pics, it's has a pinch wheel and and proper erase head, instead of the magnet erase system, found in the cheaper models of the day.

It also has a high quality motor, metal work & flywheel.

Either the makers didn't have the money to develop proper pcbs for the electronics or this may have been a development model.

[camtechman]

And here it is in it's hand stitched, leather outdoor clothing !

[Tractorfan]

Hi,

Not sure what the make was - possibly Royal something

"Royal Call"? That's what mine was. Grey with a clear cover.
It also came with a mains power unit that plugged into the front with two different sized jack plugs, 3.5mm & 2.5mm. There were 5amp size pins for the mains, but it kept falling out of the shaver adaptor I used because of the weight of the transformer within!
It was £5/19/6d from Headquarters & General.
I remember seeing one in an episode of "Coronation Street" in the sixties. Of course, the sound was dubbed in and it "sounded" almost Hi-Fi!
Cheers, Pete