How can I play my tapes? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Autobag · 20th Dec 2012, 3:28 pm

I have a number of old reel-to-reel tapes I would like to play. They were originally recorded on a Uher 4000 report monitor (circa 1983). Needless to say, I don't possess such a machine any more. What's the best way of getting hold of a Uher, or other compatible device, so I can soak up a bit of nostalgia?

brenellic2000 · 21st Dec 2012, 4:43 pm

To be honest, unless you really do want another Uher Report, I'd go for a good quality recent 7" domestic deck or a 10-1/2" Revox A77 or B77 or Sony or TEAC - and enjoy tape again. None of my small Uhers have been totally reliable... especially those I got off the internet!

The next question is do you know whether these are 1/2 or 1/4 track recording, and at what speed? How much do you want pay to get back into tape?

Barry

Autobag · 21st Dec 2012, 5:44 pm

Good points!

To be honest, it's so long ago, I don't remember the technical specs, which is why I thought it would be a good idea to find something with a choice of different speeds. The tapes were recorded for news bulletins on a commercial radio, if that helps.

As for price, I would be OK going up to £100, but probably no more than that.

Regards

Peter

paulsherwin · 21st Dec 2012, 6:00 pm

I think all the Uher Reports were half track, 3.75 or 7.5ips.

I would advise you against buying a recorder just to digitize a few tapes. These machines are mostly 40 or 50 years old and are very likely to require restoration, or at least some maintenance. There are a number of forum members who could digitize these tapes for you for a reasonable fee.

Old R2R machines are temporarily fashionable at the moment which is inflating the price of the decent stuff.

julie_m · 22nd Dec 2012, 3:16 am

Uher 4400s were 4-track stereo. 4200s were 2-track stereo and 4000s were 2-track mono. The 3-head version of the 4000 was fitted with stereo heads and brought the bottom track connections out to a front panel socket, intended for controlling a slide-changer or similar.

They were all 4-speed recorders (19, 9.5, 4.75 and 2.4 cm/sec; 7.5, 3.75, 1.875 and 15/16 in/sec), though the BBC modified the ones used for news gathering to run only at 19 cm/sec.

A 1970s / 80s 4-track stereo recorder will be the least expensive way to get your tapes into a computer. Tape speeds can be accounted for in software, if needed; play back at the lowest speed available to preserve as much top-end as possible. (The sampling rate is the limiting factor. To record a full cycle, you need at least one sample from the crest and one from the trough, limiting the maximum recording frequency to 22.05 kHz at 44100 samples/sec. (standard CD sampling rate). At double speed, one second on the tape is 2 seconds of real time, so limiting the maximum frequency to 11025 Hz. when playing back a 4.75 cm/sec tape at 9.5 cm/sec and sampling at 44100 samples/sec. This is not a big deal in practice, as lower speeds have lower maximum frequencies anyway due to the head hap width. If the tape hasn't moved on a full gap width, the trough of the wave will be recorded right over the crest.)

ricard · 22nd Dec 2012, 7:49 am

The OP doesn't really mention recording the tapes into a computer, although that may be the ultimate goal.

When recording into a computer at the wrong speed, and then using some digital audio editing software (such as Audacity, which is free) to get the speed right, I would have thought that some form of equalization would have to be applied to compensate for the fact that the tape was played back with the wrong equalization due to the wrong tape speed ("wrong" compared to the recording). I would think that it would definitely make a difference for music recordings, though not that important for voice.

The equalization curve would be be trivial to get right, one way would be to play back a frequency calibration tape, and adjust a graphic equalizer plugin in the digital audio software to get as smooth a frequency response as possible.

If the original recordings were for commercial radio, they were most likely recorded at the highest speed (7 1/2 ips) or possibly the next one down (3 3/4). So a good two or four track machine with those speeds would do adequately. I second the opinion though that finding a machine in good condition which does not require restoration might be a chore. Perhaps in the for sale section of this forum? Collectors to tend to clean out machines that they no longer have use for, which may or may not be lovingly restored.

Then again, part of the fun is actually physically playing the tapes again. With old media, the audio captured on the media is only part of the experience, compared to actually watching a machine playing the tape back.

Personally I would value having a machine that I could play back the tapes on in order to experience them, and then later on make a decision whether I wanted them transferred to modern media for preservation.

brenellic2000 · 22nd Dec 2012, 9:25 am

I agree with Ricard. A tape recorder in good order is absolutely fine - so why this obsession with digitising everything?!

It is possible to find a tape recorder in excellent condition from a trustworthy soul (off this Forum one would hope!) for under £100, but you can almost gaurantee any deck sold on an internet auction site is faulty, in some respect, (or suffer in transit) and will need some professional attention - allow £50-£100! - which is why you will need to consider what else you want to use the deck for.

Hence my suggestion of a decent Revox which will command decent prices if and when you come to sell it! But these are usually 2-speed (3-3/4 + 7-1/2) 1/2 track... which brings us back full circle... If you send me one of your tapes I can tell you what format it is... just pray the rest are the same!

Merry Chrimbo!

paulsherwin · 22nd Dec 2012, 12:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs_derby

Uher 4400s were 4-track stereo. 4200s were 2-track stereo and 4000s were 2-track mono. They were all 4-speed recorders (19, 9.5, 4.75 and 2.4 cm/sec; 7.5, 3.75, 1.875 and 15/16 in/sec), though the BBC modified the ones used for news gathering to run only at 19 cm/sec.

Thanks for the correction. I must have been thinking of something else, though I'm not sure what

julie_m · 22nd Dec 2012, 4:12 pm

There were a few portables about. I know the Uhers because my dad worked for BBC Radio Derby and would occasionally bring one home; initially they had "4000 Report L" machines (discrete PNP-based, 2-head) which were later replaced with "4000 Report Monitor" machines (IC-based, 3-head). I remember seeing some literature when they first arrived which referred to the stereo machines, too.

I bought a 4000 Report Monitor from eBay a few years back. They're lovely little recorders -- but (acoustically) noisy, and need to be kept out of range of the microphone.

20th Dec 2012, 3:28 pm	#1
Autobag Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Northampton Posts: 2	How can I play my tapes? I have a number of old reel-to-reel tapes I would like to play. They were originally recorded on a Uher 4000 report monitor (circa 1983). Needless to say, I don't possess such a machine any more. What's the best way of getting hold of a Uher, or other compatible device, so I can soak up a bit of nostalgia?

21st Dec 2012, 4:43 pm	#2
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: How can I play my tapes? To be honest, unless you really do want another Uher Report, I'd go for a good quality recent 7" domestic deck or a 10-1/2" Revox A77 or B77 or Sony or TEAC - and enjoy tape again. None of my small Uhers have been totally reliable... especially those I got off the internet! The next question is do you know whether these are 1/2 or 1/4 track recording, and at what speed? How much do you want pay to get back into tape? Barry

21st Dec 2012, 5:44 pm	#3
Autobag Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Northampton Posts: 2	Re: How can I play my tapes? Good points! To be honest, it's so long ago, I don't remember the technical specs, which is why I thought it would be a good idea to find something with a choice of different speeds. The tapes were recorded for news bulletins on a commercial radio, if that helps. As for price, I would be OK going up to £100, but probably no more than that. Regards Peter

21st Dec 2012, 6:00 pm	#4
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,965	Re: How can I play my tapes? I think all the Uher Reports were half track, 3.75 or 7.5ips. I would advise you against buying a recorder just to digitize a few tapes. These machines are mostly 40 or 50 years old and are very likely to require restoration, or at least some maintenance. There are a number of forum members who could digitize these tapes for you for a reasonable fee. Old R2R machines are temporarily fashionable at the moment which is inflating the price of the decent stuff.

22nd Dec 2012, 3:16 am	#5
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: How can I play my tapes? Uher 4400s were 4-track stereo. 4200s were 2-track stereo and 4000s were 2-track mono. The 3-head version of the 4000 was fitted with stereo heads and brought the bottom track connections out to a front panel socket, intended for controlling a slide-changer or similar. They were all 4-speed recorders (19, 9.5, 4.75 and 2.4 cm/sec; 7.5, 3.75, 1.875 and 15/16 in/sec), though the BBC modified the ones used for news gathering to run only at 19 cm/sec. A 1970s / 80s 4-track stereo recorder will be the least expensive way to get your tapes into a computer. Tape speeds can be accounted for in software, if needed; play back at the lowest speed available to preserve as much top-end as possible. (The sampling rate is the limiting factor. To record a full cycle, you need at least one sample from the crest and one from the trough, limiting the maximum recording frequency to 22.05 kHz at 44100 samples/sec. (standard CD sampling rate). At double speed, one second on the tape is 2 seconds of real time, so limiting the maximum frequency to 11025 Hz. when playing back a 4.75 cm/sec tape at 9.5 cm/sec and sampling at 44100 samples/sec. This is not a big deal in practice, as lower speeds have lower maximum frequencies anyway due to the head hap width. If the tape hasn't moved on a full gap width, the trough of the wave will be recorded right over the crest.) __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

22nd Dec 2012, 7:49 am	#6
ricard Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lund, Sweden Posts: 1,632	Re: How can I play my tapes? The OP doesn't really mention recording the tapes into a computer, although that may be the ultimate goal. When recording into a computer at the wrong speed, and then using some digital audio editing software (such as Audacity, which is free) to get the speed right, I would have thought that some form of equalization would have to be applied to compensate for the fact that the tape was played back with the wrong equalization due to the wrong tape speed ("wrong" compared to the recording). I would think that it would definitely make a difference for music recordings, though not that important for voice. The equalization curve would be be trivial to get right, one way would be to play back a frequency calibration tape, and adjust a graphic equalizer plugin in the digital audio software to get as smooth a frequency response as possible. If the original recordings were for commercial radio, they were most likely recorded at the highest speed (7 1/2 ips) or possibly the next one down (3 3/4). So a good two or four track machine with those speeds would do adequately. I second the opinion though that finding a machine in good condition which does not require restoration might be a chore. Perhaps in the for sale section of this forum? Collectors to tend to clean out machines that they no longer have use for, which may or may not be lovingly restored. Then again, part of the fun is actually physically playing the tapes again. With old media, the audio captured on the media is only part of the experience, compared to actually watching a machine playing the tape back. Personally I would value having a machine that I could play back the tapes on in order to experience them, and then later on make a decision whether I wanted them transferred to modern media for preservation.

22nd Dec 2012, 9:25 am	#7
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: How can I play my tapes? I agree with Ricard. A tape recorder in good order is absolutely fine - so why this obsession with digitising everything?! It is possible to find a tape recorder in excellent condition from a trustworthy soul (off this Forum one would hope!) for under £100, but you can almost gaurantee any deck sold on an internet auction site is faulty, in some respect, (or suffer in transit) and will need some professional attention - allow £50-£100! - which is why you will need to consider what else you want to use the deck for. Hence my suggestion of a decent Revox which will command decent prices if and when you come to sell it! But these are usually 2-speed (3-3/4 + 7-1/2) 1/2 track... which brings us back full circle... If you send me one of your tapes I can tell you what format it is... just pray the rest are the same! Merry Chrimbo!

22nd Dec 2012, 4:12 pm	#9
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: How can I play my tapes? There were a few portables about. I know the Uhers because my dad worked for BBC Radio Derby and would occasionally bring one home; initially they had "4000 Report L" machines (discrete PNP-based, 2-head) which were later replaced with "4000 Report Monitor" machines (IC-based, 3-head). I remember seeing some literature when they first arrived which referred to the stereo machines, too. I bought a 4000 Report Monitor from eBay a few years back. They're lovely little recorders -- but (acoustically) noisy, and need to be kept out of range of the microphone. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.