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Old 19th Nov 2019, 1:08 am   #21
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

My Grandfather used to use one of those but I don't think he quite grasped the principle of operation as he used to leave it going INSIDE the car all night.
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 11:00 pm   #22
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

Oh... I can understand the appeal of a warm car, but against that there's the fire risk, the raised levels of interior condensation and misting, the lingering smell of paraffin, and raised CO levels in the car first thing just when you really want to be alert.
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 11:11 pm   #23
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

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Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
-18C must be close to a record low for England.
I was living within a mile of RAF Benson back in the very-early-1980s when they logged temperatures below -20C.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 12:14 am   #24
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

My outside tap in the depths of wintery Warks is connected to the house with a plastic pipe, through layers of external cladding, and it's shown no signs of freezing.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 1:45 am   #25
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

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...raised CO levels in the car first thing just when you really want to be alert.
Absolutely, but fortunately the simple act of opening the door probably replaced about half of the air in the car. Otherwise I shudder to think...
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 9:37 am   #26
Steve G4WCS
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Smile Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

instead of a wirewound resistor you could epoxy a couple of LM380's to the tap and play christmas music at it at loud volume

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Old 21st Nov 2019, 10:41 am   #27
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

I would avoid any electric anti frost heating to stop an outside tap from freezing. It won't work in a power cut, and power cuts are IME more likely in extreme weather.

I would also avoid anything involving tea lights or paraffin due to the need for regular replenishment and possibly fire risk.

That leaves as options, either an internal tap operated from the outside by a shaft, or an inside tap that can isolate the water supply to the outside tap, make sure to drain the water from the outside tap in this case.

An insulating cover helps, but is not to be relied on. If using an insulating cover, then during frosty weather run to waste a litre or two of water every day. This will replace the very cold water in the tap with slightly warmer water from the main.

If this waste of water worries you, then bring the drawn off water indoors in a bucket and use it to flush the WC.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 11:43 am   #28
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

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Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
-18C must be close to a record low for England.
It might be for Oxford- it managed that one night in Jan 1982. I nipped out to see what it was like and nipped back inside pretty smartly!
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 2:52 pm   #29
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

It's pretty easy to make "Liebig condenser"- type coaxial heat-exchanger sections with standard pipework fittings by e.g. pushing 15mm copper tube past the end-stops in 15 x 22 x 15 end-feed tees. (I won't be the only one here who's found that it's often only too easy to push past copper fitting end-stops anyway!). A section say a foot long with radiator flow through the outer could be installed where the tap goes through the wall- if needs be, a 22 x 22 x 15 intermediate fitting could be used so that the 22mm jacket could continue through the wall ending at the tap with 22 x 15 reducer without needing to connect a heating pipe externally. The drawback being that heating is likely to be off in the early hours when the outside temperature will probably be lowest. One of those ideas I'd chewed over as "possible, but probably clumsy in most situations".
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 4:12 pm   #30
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

The inside tap solution seems by far the simplest. Electric heating might fail and other possibilities have their complications/risks. The inside tap operated remotely might be justified if you needed the water frequently in adverse conditions but that won't apply in most situations I'm guessing. It will be interesting to see what Christopher has gone for in the end.

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David's sump heater comment [post20*] reminds me of a Readers Digest story from the early days in the Yukon. In order to get their Diesel Dozers started, in desperately low temperatures, the somewhat gung-ho drivers poured petrol underneath, lit it and jumped on board hoping the engine started before the whole lot went up!

Last edited by dave walsh; 21st Nov 2019 at 4:30 pm.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 5:03 pm   #31
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

When I worked for BR in 1950/60's, we fitted pipe tracing cable to the feed water pipes. Water was taken from river and canals with powerful pumps and steam engines need a reliable water supply. It was important to have a reliable water supply and the simple pipe tracing cable did the trick in frosty weather, remember 1963. I'm sure it must still be available.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 5:18 pm   #32
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

"Self-regulating" trace-heating tape/cable is the solution I'm familiar with for these sorts of things - we used it on the condensate-drain pipes of data-centre heat-exchangers and on the Diesel feed-pipes to the generators. It's properly insulated/certified for such use so undoubtedly a lot safer than anything kludged together with wall-warts and resistors.

To be honest though, I feel the whole issue is getting over-analysed. Fit a stopcock on the internal pipework and turn it off if there's a suggestion of frost. Job Done, and no running-costs!
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 6:57 pm   #33
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Default Re: Idea to prevent the outside tap freezing up this winter

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Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
To be honest though, I feel the whole issue is getting over-analysed. Fit a stopcock on the internal pipework and turn it off if there's a suggestion of frost. Job Done, and no running-costs!
Exactly. That's what most people in our climate do, after the first burst pipe if not initially.
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