UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 26th Sep 2010, 2:56 pm   #21
Techman
Dekatron
 
Techman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,985
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

There was one of those with single arm & long resistance (that used to get hot) fitted above the sink in the kitchen of my previous house. It was very wastefull of power & packed up in the end & got replaced by another "old" fitting with a "proper" choke
Techman is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 3:10 pm   #22
Techman
Dekatron
 
Techman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,985
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

I've just been up in the loft to check my old tube stock & found that I only have one original bayonet cap tube left & it's the one that got broken the other week......

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040200.jpg
Views:	358
Size:	49.6 KB
ID:	40805

Not to worry though, as I've got a box of end cap adaptors.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040201.jpg
Views:	345
Size:	35.9 KB
ID:	40806

That fit on like this.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040202.jpg
Views:	348
Size:	40.9 KB
ID:	40807

So the old fittings look like living on for a long time to come
Techman is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 3:32 pm   #23
Techman
Dekatron
 
Techman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,985
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Here's one of the bayonet end cap fittings that I mentioned in an earlier post.

Still working & hanging by its chains in the garage.....early 1950's or even 40's

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040199.jpg
Views:	373
Size:	37.3 KB
ID:	40808

I've got several of these. This one is over the bench in my outside workshop. It normally runs with just the bare tube & hasn't had a cover fitted in ten years (the tube is pitted with hot metal thrown up from the bench grinder), hence the reason to not spoil the cover. I've just re-fitted the cover specially for these pictures. I can date this fitting exactly to 1959/60. This one has standard tube pin end cap fittings & has an internal 1 amp fuse fitted in a nice little socket & adjustable choke tappings, IIRC.........
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040206.JPG
Views:	347
Size:	166.2 KB
ID:	40809   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040205.JPG
Views:	325
Size:	152.2 KB
ID:	40810   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040204.JPG
Views:	315
Size:	149.3 KB
ID:	40811  
Techman is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 4:42 pm   #24
AndiiT
Octode
 
AndiiT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saltburn-East, Cleveland, UK.
Posts: 1,786
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by raditechman View Post
.....I think the Phillips fitting with the long wire "choke" in a thin metal bar running the length of the tube, mentioned by Andrew, actually used a resistance wire.......John
Hi,
Thinking about this, it probably was resistance wire. The fitting in question did (eventually) come in to my possession and was used as the main lighting in my shed/workshop at my parents house some years ago.

Regards
Andrew
AndiiT is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 6:33 pm   #25
Lucien Nunes
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 2,508
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Quote:
it's rather smaller than a pigmy lamp, with a 2-pin SBC base
Then this must be something other than a combined ballast & starter, as it would be too small and does not have enough connections.

Below is a picture of the Atlas Starterlamp, which has a standard 4-pin starter base with the lamp across the plain pins and the starter across the flanged pins. It is designed for a 40W 4' tube.

In a fitting with resistance ballast such as the Philips one being discussed, where, what provides the starting impulse? Surely something inductive is needed and if one is going to go to the cost of installing a choke or transformer for that then why not do as normal and use the choke as the ballast too?

On the subject of odd starting methods I invented an unusual instant starter that worked well and served in my workshop for a while, as a result of frustration with dead glow-starters. It consisted of two AC solenoids (gear-change and drain valve solenoids from a long since deceased Bendix LT washing machine) with their armatures mechanically connected in a 'tug-of-war' arrangement. The upper one was connected to the lamp supply, the other across the starter terminals of an ordinary choke-ballasted fitting. The armatures would be at rest with the lower one 'in' and the upper one 'out'. Switching the lamp on caused the upper solenoid to pull the armature suddenly out of the lower, changing its reluctance and generating the ignition impulse, then hitting a microswitch to insert an economy resistance and cut the starter out of circuit.

I do like a bit of Heath Robinson every now and then! This sort of thing confirms that there is at least a modest amount of 'play value' in fluorescents!

Lucien
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 10.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	153.4 KB
ID:	40820  
Lucien Nunes is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 7:24 pm   #26
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Couple of things which have been mentioned through this thread.

The use of incandescent filaments, while no longer commonplace as far as linear fluorescent lamps, does still see service in blended mercury vapour lamps. While these offer little better efficacy than incandescent lamps - they do have very long service lives, as such while essentially obsolete technologically, are still in production. I have some further information on these on my website on this page.

Lamptech has some further information on the metal-stripe equipped tubes here as I see these have been mentioned quite a bit.

Nice couple of units there, Techman. The covers on the one over the workbench definitely have the look of technology from that period don't they! In astonishingly good condition too - large diffusers like that are always very vulnerable to getting cracked I've found - especially once the plastic's aged by a few decades.
Zelandeth is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 7:45 pm   #27
chipp1968
Rest in Peace
 
chipp1968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerset, UK.
Posts: 2,356
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

My parents had a shop in the 70s /early80s and there were a number of the bayonet fluorescent fittings there .I remember the adapters too .I also wouldn't be surprised if there were some in Mums garage now !
I remember being annoyed about 10 years ago when a friends parents suddenly removed and dumped their 50s kitchen fitting that I had been admiring every visit.Very attractive reflectors with fins and ogee shaped ends I think .Green? The replacement is now in a skip too as it fell apart .There was nothing wrong with the original!
When I moved here 20 years ago I removed two units in the kitchen which were from about 1960 .They were mounted ,stand away from the ceiling on a central fitting , but as we have low ceilings were not the best thing .Im not sure what the fixing type was .
chipp1968 is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 8:17 pm   #28
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 5,263
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Quote:
looked quite "Space age" for its time (the early 70's)
My Auntie had one of these fitted in her new-build house kitchen in 1964, the metalwork was a sort of pastel blue stove enamel and chrome.

I recently threw out an early 70's Crompton instant 'Snapstart' geared fitting because it was just taking up too much room in the garage. There is a similar one in my parents kitchen and its very instant, installed in 1972 or so, they have individual switches on the 'ballast' to make it safer to relamp in multiple commercial situations.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 9:25 pm   #29
matthewhouse
Octode
 
matthewhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Willand, Devon, UK.
Posts: 1,023
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herald1360 View Post
Hmmmm, a resistive ballast wouldn't exactly help the efficiency........ cheap though it might be. I guess it could provide some aesthetic freedom for more esoteric designs.
Perhaps for use on DC mains?

Matty
matthewhouse is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 9:42 pm   #30
kalee20
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,060
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

I can't see that somehow - fluorescent lamps need AC to work. If you use on DC, then the tube would probably be unevenly illuminated; also, the cathode would need to be permanently fed with some sort of heating supply (while the anode electrode would be hot due to electron bombardment with no gain). On AC the heat generated in an end electrode in 'anode' mode is made use of during the next half cycle when it's in 'cathode' mode.
kalee20 is online now  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 9:42 pm   #31
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

This discussion has just reminded me of something which I've never actually seen an example of, but I've seen one video advert for (think it's in the videos section on Lamptech) and have one printed advert for buried somewhere.

Effectively the very first predecessor I imagine to CFLs, from the early 60s - made by Mazda, and named the Netaline. This was effectively a complete linear fluorescent fixture which attached to an existing lampholder. Given the weight of such a thing, I imagine they must have attached to the ceiling rose rather than the lampholder itself - and the one decent picture I've seen of one seems to confirm that.

Anyone seen one of these?

Last edited by Brian R Pateman; 27th Sep 2010 at 12:15 pm. Reason: Link fixed.
Zelandeth is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 10:24 pm   #32
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelandeth View Post
Anyone seen one of these?
Just in the ads of 'Exchange and Mart' years ago. A three-foot-ish metal arrangement that plugged into a bayonet socket?
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 10:37 pm   #33
amp_mangler
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mareeba, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 140
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Why did you bring this up ? I have to replace one in my workshop ( the THIRD one) in about 10 years, the ballast looks like a transistor radio output transformer !!!! and like the last two is open circuit, they run at over 100 degrees C, the old ones ran at a ( hot) 60C were 6 times the size and dont go open circuit

Joe
amp_mangler is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 10:38 pm   #34
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Pretty much - not entirely certain whether they actually fitted straight into the bayonet fitting - at over three pounds in weight you'd hope not! - or if they fastened to the actual ceiling rose. Having never seen one in person, it's hard to say.

The idea does seem to live on though - I spotted a couple of years ago in a DIY store a perfectly normal linear fluorescent fitting (18W one I think) with a B22 cap on the back! Last time I was there though they were no longer there though. In fact, linear fluorescents seemed very poorly catered for compared to previous visits.

Last edited by Brian R Pateman; 27th Sep 2010 at 12:15 pm. Reason: After fixing link in earlier post.
Zelandeth is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 10:49 pm   #35
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,637
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndiiT View Post
Hi, Thinking about this, it probably was resistance wire. The fitting in question did (eventually) come in to my possession and was used as the main lighting in my shed/workshop at my parents house some years ago
I seem to remember these too, although I was only young and not the Anorak I am now.
The choke is there to provide the kick to strike the tube and then the
impedance to prevent self destruction. Did they have different tubes, or is the "kick" not necessary?
Back then we also had a very space age thing in our house, a circular fluorescent light, remember them?
AC/HL is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 10:49 pm   #36
cmjones01
Nonode
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland and Cambridge, UK
Posts: 2,669
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

I remember seeing one of these plug-in linear fluorescent fittings - a friend had one in his shed. It was fairly awful. It consisted of a bayonet cap mounted on a plastic tube containing a long resistance wire ballast (no choke) with a couple of (2 foot?) fluorescent tubes attached. I still don't understand how the starting arrangement worked, though tubes as short as that will frequently strike without a starter in my experience.
cmjones01 is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 11:19 pm   #37
Brigham
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Co. Durham, UK.
Posts: 1,111
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Some of mine are working with bayonet converters; but occasionally on a long cool summer evening I would carefully 'de-cap' a new 5' tube, and fit the ends recovered from a used-up bayonet type. You have to extend the leads in order to reach the contacts, and then solder them very quickly with a hot iron, to prevent them coming apart again.
I have only one still running on a bi-metal starter. The filaments are glowing all the time the lamp is lit, so they eventually give up, at which point a glow-tube is fitted. It spoils the action of the lamp, though; the repeated strikes are a clear give-away.
Is there an Ebay category 'Obsolete Fluorescents'? I'd certainly be bidding.
Brigham is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 11:44 pm   #38
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

Cmjones01: Doubt this is the same thing then - the Netaline looks to be rather more substantial bit of kit than that - and as far as I'm aware there weren't any twin tube versions.

This page shows an ad very similar to the one I have tucked away somewhere - I'll scan it if I can find it - and it doesn't look to me like a cheap bit of plastic.

Yes - I want one!

Brigham - Have you tried using one of the modern "pulse" starters? They tend to light the lamp on the first strike in my experience - not sure if they come in four pin versions though - all of the ones I have are two-pin.

Last edited by Zelandeth; 26th Sep 2010 at 11:46 pm. Reason: Added info about starters, and corrected a typo
Zelandeth is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2010, 8:43 am   #39
Heatercathodeshort
Dekatron
 
Heatercathodeshort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 9,145
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

I did have in the garage of my old shop two huge fittings which I believe came from the late 30's. They were massive, heavy twin tube affairs,thinner than the usual older types but using a 5kv transformer to power them. They were simply fluorescent coated tubes filled with maybe Argon? The high voltage was applied to the ends as in Neon sign practise. They were salvaged from the Venner time switch factory just before demolition in 1978. I think one may still exist as I passed a couple to a mate to use in a store room. The attached pictures show an instant start Ekco fitting with the striped tube. It like the fittings described earlier came from the Venner factory. Regards, John.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P9270089.jpg
Views:	424
Size:	87.6 KB
ID:	40834   Click image for larger version

Name:	P9270088.jpg
Views:	364
Size:	92.6 KB
ID:	40835  
Heatercathodeshort is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2010, 8:49 am   #40
chipp1968
Rest in Peace
 
chipp1968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerset, UK.
Posts: 2,356
Default Re: Obsolete fluorescent light fittings

I like the look of that in Zels link ! very sixties stylish .Like something out of Madmen.
We had an early form of CFL i think In the 80s in the bathroom at home.Was horrible. Like a milk bottle flickered as it came on and i think I remember took ages to get to brightness .It was quite heavy i think too.
chipp1968 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 9:18 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.