juke box

[anthony lawrenc]

hi everyone a change from my usual radiograms and recordplayers .A pub up the road frpm me is geting a refurb i was driving by last week when i saw the jukebox standing next to a skip well i just couldent resist [ive always wanted one ]I asked the builders if i could have it they said if you can move it mate its yours i quickly phoned a couple of mates and its now in the garage [we soon found out why it wasnt in the empty skip it weighs a ton ]its an NSM Prestige 120 the amp works the arm and cartridge are conected to the amp with a 5 pin din i unpluged this and conected a cd player it sounds amazing and it looks great when its all lit up i think it was built around the early 70s it will only play a record if you place it on the player and put the arm on manualy can anyone tell me where i can get any information on this machine i have looked at all the threads on here cant see anything about jukeboxes cheers Anthony

[Chiltern]

Hi, well done. now you need a manual, try 'The Jukeboxman' in Lincoln he may be able to help. There are plenty of these 'boxes around spares are easy to get, hope it will not be too long before it's making music on it's own.

Alan

[julie_m]

NSMs are great machines!

You shouldn't have any trouble getting hold of a manual from eBay, but make sure to get the exact one for your machine. You can often work from a "wrong" manual, because manufacturers re-used a lot from one model to the next, but don't make your first one any harder than it needs to be.

The playing mechanism is very similar to a Seeburg: carriage travels up and down the magazine, plays the record upright, deals with 6.3 and 38mm centre holes, tonearm has a stylus on each side. No Tormat memory unit here, though the Prestige was fully micro-controlled.

Best of luck with it ..... oh, and, pictures!

[theoldtrout]

If the carriage travels to the selected location then there isn't much wrong. You'll probably find dried up grease is preventing the gripper from operating as the arm won't move until the gripper has placed the record on the turntable and the clamp moved into place. There are various cams, microswitches and optical sensors on these mechanisms. We take the mechanisms off and wash the whole lot in a degreaser.

As previous posts have suggested, get the correct manual, it will save you a lot of time. They are nice machines to work on.

[anthony lawrenc]

thanks guys today i took the whole carrage out and cleaned and lubricated it also removed 30 odd years worth of dirt . I also found a blown fuse when i replaced it the playing mecanism started to move up and down the carrage and the select numbers lit up on the right hand side so its looking quite promising will post some pictures and keep you informed of my progress thanks again anthony

[jukeboxjunkie]

Originally Posted by ajs_derby

NSMs are great machines!

You shouldn't have any trouble getting hold of a manual from eBay, but make sure to get the exact one for your machine. You can often work from a "wrong" manual, because manufacturers re-used a lot from one model to the next, but don't make your first one any harder than it needs to be.

The playing mechanism is very similar to a Seeburg: carriage travels up and down the magazine, plays the record upright, deals with 6.3 and 38mm centre holes, tonearm has a stylus on each side. No Tormat memory unit here, though the Prestige was fully micro-controlled.

Best of luck with it ..... oh, and, pictures!

You are correct, they are very like the Seeburg, if I remember my history correctly, and if I don't; I'm sure someone will correct me, NSM basically stole the concept from Seeburg who later sued and won damages, from then on NSM had to pay a licence fee!

[Outrun_uk]

Not sure if this is any help :- http://www.jukeofshrewsbury.co.uk/
I'm not associated or have had any dealings with this company but have seen the machines they sell and the restoration jobs are top notch, looks like a lot of time and effort goes into them.

[Blueaardvark46]

You could also try jukeboxparts.co.uk. They also do used spares for most makes.

[anthony lawrenc]

hi guys thanks for the info .After further investigation i have found what i think is a problem th part im pointing at in the photo is atached to the carrage as it runs along the track it should come in contact with any of the pop up contacts on the main chasis that have been selected [all of these are working perfectly ] but as you can see there is a gap between the carrage and the chassis i have checked the carrage making sure its on properly i cant see how it can fit any better could this be the wrong carrage for this machine[ i understand there are some subtle differences between models ] or is there somthing realy obvious that im missing also there is a 9 point conector plug that conects to the carrage which is ok but next to it there is a smaller 2 point conector i have no idea where this goes there is nothing obvious for it to conect to any ideas just out of curiosity can anyone tell me whats a stepper unit ? look forward to hearing from you all cheers Anthony

[jukeboxjunkie]

Hi Anthony, last question first. A stepper is a device that is used on some Jukeboxes, not all, to allow a remotely wired wallbox to make record selections from the main Jukebox. It was called a stepper because it would send a timed train of pulses or steps, to be decoded at the other end. On some later machines steppers were built in. The unused plug looks like it may be for a lamp unit that would be in the cover over the mech but I can't be sure of that! I may have a diagram for this machine but will have to have a look for it. As I don't think this Jukebox uses the Tormat Memory unit you will probably find that when a selection is made, a pin should pop up on the row under the carrage. When this pops up a contact is made, the carrage stops, cancels the pin (pops down) and a record should be removed from the rack and placed on the turntable. You don't say what happens when you make a selection? Have you established that you can make credits on the machine when you put a coin in? What happens to the mech? Does it just go backwards and forwards and then stop? Try and give me a run down, cheers Steve.

[anthony lawrenc]

thanks Steve for all that information this is my first encounter with a jukebox first of all in my last thread i thought the machine had the wrong carrage on it after further investigation i realized the two larger spring loaded contacts were pushed in and stuck after freeing them they spring in and out nicely the other two contacts that touch the little pins you mention were also stuck after freeing them up i put the carrage back on the track all the selections are working [all the pins pop out when the coresponding buttons are pressed]but the carrage will only move when i push in by hand the solenoid that engages the motor the carrage travels up and down the track then it stops i wired up the solenoid picking power up from another point and it pulled inas it should so thats ok also as the carrage moves along the track all the green selection lights flash as the carrage passes them can you tell me what causes the solenoid to pull in i would think it should pull in as soon as a selection is made in order to power the carrage along the track maybe im wrong ? The audio side of this machine is fine i have unpluged the amp for the time being dont want to damage it . a fiew more photos to look at in pic one this conection has nothing pluged into it the other end is in pic 2 pic 3 is the solenoid that wont pull in the relay in pic 4 has been soldered in the on position any ideas ? look forward to hearing from you cheers Anthony

[jukeboxjunkie]

Hi Anthony. Well, first you should reconnect the amp, it's not just an amp, it also controls muting and other functions! You won't damage it, so plug that back in. The photos are just not sharp enough for me to make out! After credits are accumulated and a selection is made the appropriate pin should pop up, the carrage should start to move one way and possibly the other, depending on the selection made! Once the carrage makes contact with the pin that's up; it should stop, take the record from the rack and place it on the turntable. From what you have said I guess that it does put the pin up but the carrage does not start until you operate the relay by hand? Did you get a manual or circuit yet? I will go and look now for my copy, if I have one that is! Cheers, Steve.

[jukeboxjunkie]

Anthony, my manual is for Serenade Consul 130. I don't think that it's very different! I know that these manuals are hard to find for the exact model and are almost always in German!!! I don't read German! But still!! Very important to reconnect amplifier or 'Verstarker'! These mechs are different! They use a coil to control what the motor does, it's mounted on the drive shaft of the motor, the opposite end to the capstan. I have had problems in the past with this coil/coupling, it's electro-mechanical and pulls in a coupling assy. When the carrage stops by picking up a contact with the relevant selection solenoid, the clutch coil is energised and makes the motor load a record instead of scanning up and down. Cleaver but troublesome! It's been about 5 years since I last repaired one so you will have to forgive me if I'm a bit vague on the subject!

[anthony lawrenc]

.Thanks Steve for your expert advice i have tried to get a manual but to no luck .I will do as you say and plug the amp back in this machine must be diffrent to the 130 there is no coil on the motor shaft theres just a sort of wing nut afair and when the ofending solenoid is pushed in it engages the wing nut [will try to take a better photo] as i said earlier the solenoid isnt burnt out .as you say its a clever little machine it must have gone through its sequence thousands of times over the years any idea what causes the solenoid to be energized if i could work out why its not getting power that would be a great help i will add more pics later today thanks again Anthony

[jukeboxjunkie]

Hi Anthony, that wing nut is the solenoid (EL Coupling), I can see it (just about) in the photo with the pencil in it! It can be operated manually as you describe. If I remember correctly I had to strip mine down. I have a breakdown of the mech and I'm fairly certain that it is very similar if not identical to the 130, I would be very surprised if it weren't, NSM or any Jukebox manufacturer would only change things if they really had to but then this is a German machine! I am not able to scan the breakdown for you at the moment but if I can later this week I will. The solenoid is driven from the mains transformer, 110 volt AC tap, via relay MR. The other side is wired in series with two safety switches mounted on the carriage then goes to the scan switch and then back to the mains side of the transformer, neutral through fuse Si1 2 amp. So you should be able to get a voltage reading of 110 volt AC from neutral to contacts on the MR relay, contacts 2 and 5 are joined and the output is on contact 1. Contacts 4 and 3 of the same relay control the motor. Hope this helps. As I said, I wish I could send you a scan of circuits and mech. By the way did you try Stamann http://www.jukebox-world.de/ ask for Hildegard, she is very knowledgeable and helpful.

[anthony lawrenc]

thanks again for all that info you mention relay mr whats the mr stand for? i cant see any safety swiches on the carrage but i will check out the main transformer there is some kind of swich just below the arm im guessing its some kind of magnetic gismo can you tell me what its for i will post apic of it theres also a pic of a relay that has had all its contacts soldered together above writen above it it says single relay there is also another switch on the carrage i think this one switches off the cartridge when the record has finished cheers Anthony

[jukeboxjunkie]

Hi Anthony. Late night person then

The MR is the motor relay, it controls the play motor and the EL coupling. I'll come back to it shortly. The switch below the arm is a reed switch and it is, as you guessed, operated by a magnet on the tone arm and is to reject the record when it reaches the end of play.

I think the relay is for singles selection and I think you may find another relay for album selection, maybe it switches from one position to the other so only one relay! I don't think that this is important, it was probably soldered out to make sure that album selection could not be used!

Anyway, back to the MR relay and motor. What happens with this motor is it does two things, one, takes a record from the rack and places it on the turntable, two, switches to play mode. The solenoid is the key to this function, when energised it will load a record and when released it will play the record I'm not sure which way round this is, it could be opposite!

There should be a separate motor for the carriage assy?

The info I have is for the 130 but your machine is the 120 and they are different but just how different I don't remember! I have checked the website and the manual is available from Stanmann. I have some photos of the 120 in bits but not enough to be useful!

Can you confirm that when a selection is made that the carriage starts to move and that it does stop at the pin that's popped up?

Cheers, Steve.

[anthony lawrenc]

thanks Steve this is what happens when i make a selection [the carrage will be to the right on the track ]the motor starts thats all when i push in the coil to engage the motor the carrage travels along the track to the other end travels back then it either switches of or starts the prosess again depending on how many selections have been made ,as you know there is another coil underneath [i can bring this into action by moving one of the relays on the control box]it pushes a lever this stops the carrage moving it then picks up a record plays it puts it back i then have to push in the coil to engage the motor again the carrage moves along to the righthand side and stops forgot to mention when the carrage moves along the track it passes over the raised pins i have taken the whole machine out of the cabinet its on the bench standing on 4 tins of beans so that i can watch every thing as it happens i cant see any other motor the whole thing seems to be powered by the one motor im going to leave it alone now had enough for today will have another look tmro thanks again Steve nice to know someone knows what there doing Anthony

[jukeboxjunkie]

Morning Anthony. Sounds like you will have to trace the wiring to and from the EL coupling coil. Obviously this coil is not being energised otherwise the carriage would be moving. I seem to remember that I had a broken wire inside the mech and had to strip it down also the two safety switches I mentioned had problems, these are in series with the coil. Check to see if you have some resistance across the coil if you can, they should ultimately terminate on two of the contacts on the socket mounted on the carriage. If you can find these and you do have continuity then you can work your way back to the supply for the coil. While you are working on the mech also check that the reed switch opens and closes when the arm is moved backwards and forwards, you can use a small magnet or speaker to test it if you are unable to move the arm. Let me know how you get on.

[anthony lawrenc]

hi thanks for your last thread checked the reed switch its fine i have done a continuity test all the way back to the motor relay the problem seems to stem from there theres only power on the motor side none on the side that supplys the coil on the carrage if i put a screwdriver across the points on the motor relay the coil pulls in and the carrage travels up and down then stops so question is why is there no power to the coil side of the relay will investigate further and let you know the outcome thanks again Anthony