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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 8th Jun 2018, 12:08 am   #81
dave walsh
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Bell wire could perhaps break more easily as a single core Gramophone but in practise and despite other comments, it's not expected to keep flexing-no problem in other words-it's surprisingly enduring. I'd use it and it would suffice but that wouldn't be my first choice. Ring main cable is single core after all.

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Old 8th Jun 2018, 7:36 am   #82
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Thanks, Dave, very interesting!

Now, has anyone ever left a performance in the Albert Hall complaining that they couldn't bear the sound of all those non-audiophile cables?

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Old 8th Jun 2018, 12:26 pm   #83
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I am going to purchase some bell wire today from my local Wickes Store. I use 4 metre lengths for each speaker, and my concern is that their will be a loss of power going to the speakers due to the thin bell wire over that length of cable.

I would be grateful for any advice regarding this . . . .

Thank you . . . .
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 12:43 pm   #84
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

There will not be a loss of power as such, but there could be some sonic affect using this type of cable. Before multi-strand cable was introduced there was not much choice - but you do have a choice now. I would urge you to use 79 strand cables instead, then you can be sure it's probably going to be as good as it gets.....
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 12:45 pm   #85
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

We'd need to know the specification of the bell wire ie resistance, inductance, leakage and capacitance per metre to answer that. I suspect resistance contributes most to any losses.

Bell wire works fine for me. If in doubt get some thicker cable, bearing in mind it may be more obtrusive and harder to bend.
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 12:47 pm   #86
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramophone1 View Post
I am going to purchase some bell wire today from my local Wickes Store. I use 4 metre lengths for each speaker, and my concern is that their will be a loss of power going to the speakers due to the thin bell wire over that length of cable.

I would be grateful for any advice regarding this . . . .

Thank you . . . .
This is the note from Cambridge Audio referring to their cable guide table which I have attached.

"The below table illustrates suggested cable lengths that will ensure your cable has a resistance less than 5% of your speaker’s nominal impedance given differing gauge measurements"

This is for 5% resistance but it was mentioned in this thread that 10% should be OK so you can probably double the lengths.

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Old 8th Jun 2018, 12:50 pm   #87
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I'll get my micrometer and check my bell wire.
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 1:07 pm   #88
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

0.036" diameter which is 20 SWG.

That's 0.9144mm diameter, so somewhere between 18 and 20 AWG.

EDIT. According to tables, the resistance is 23.6 ohms per 1000 yards. Fusing current 69.9A.
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 1:23 pm   #89
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I'm using 0.5mm² speaker cable for my TV 6.1 surround sound which is 50W per channel and although the longest run is about 8M I have not noticed any apparent problems, but this is to the rear speakers which only handle a small proportion of the sound, about 80% of the sound comes from the centre speaker but this is only about 1M away from the amp',

Depends on what setup you have in mind.

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Old 8th Jun 2018, 1:29 pm   #90
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Resistance is 23.6 ohms per 1000 yards. One thousand yards is 914.4 metres. I am only going four metres per pair of wire, I think I will be OK . . . .
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 1:37 pm   #91
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

My set up is stereo. Each speaker is in the corners of the room. My reason for using bell wire is partly nostalgia, because I am curious, and like to experiment. I also suspect the quality of the copper will be better than that used in really cheap speaker cables.

I will let you know how I get on . . . .
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 1:47 pm   #92
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... I also suspect the quality of the copper will be better than that used in really cheap speaker cables ...
Interesting. Why do you suspect this ?

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 1:53 pm   #93
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Be careful with bell wire, it might cause ringing ....Couldn't resist.

Lawrence.
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 2:14 pm   #94
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I have used really cheap speaker cables, and the copper turned green.

I have yet to see copper from mains cable, earth cable, turn green. I maybe wrong, but if bell wire is the same copper used in mains cable it will be more robust, no fine strands like speaker cable. Just my opinion, but that does not mean I am right.
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 2:37 pm   #95
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Following on from the £40000 speaker cables, I found mains cables for a mere £1600 which dramatically improve the sound. So if the last metre of the mains cable makes such a difference, I think I’ll have to throw away the 4-way extension cable, replace the 10m of cable in the wall, find an audiofile grade consumer unit (shouldn’t be more than a few 10’s of thousand), then there’s the cables to the sub-station.....I wonder what the transformer lams are made of. Oh, and I’m close to Heysham nuclear power station, so while I’m at it, I must fit a filter to make sure the electricity is cleaned of radiation. Aargh.

Stuart
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 2:39 pm   #96
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I think we can safely say that by and large these forums are an audiophool free zone.
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 2:44 pm   #97
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

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Following on from the £40000 speaker cables, I’m close to Heysham nuclear power station, so while I’m at it, I must fit a filter to make sure the electricity is cleaned of radiation. Aargh.

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The reactor would have to be fed with cryogenicly treated atoms.
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 3:10 pm   #98
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I've used all sorts of duff mains cable in the past-items you wouldn't risk putting 240v through ot taping together-no problem! Experiment away Gramo but you might need a comparator cable. Someone throwing out a lawn mower or vac and giving you the cable would be ideal. I've used bell wire for cheapness, convenience [I had some already] and concealment as I said but I don't know that I would specifically purchase it. There won't be any difference any way. I understand some of the impedance and power loss issues but you need to be able to hear a difference in the first place-like high frequencies as we get older.

I've got a quad Amp and some massive speakers [a gift believe it or not] but the chap donating them always bought the "very best" [ie most expensive] in the eighties. This included lenghs of wide flat twin cream "speaker cable" that are a bit like ships hawsers-difficult to move about and even to store when not in use. Every time I re-jigged the system it was a major job. After a couple of years I resorted to something much less muscular and flexible with no apparent difference in sound quality. I definitely wouldn't have used Bell Wire there though

Dave
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 3:15 pm   #99
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I use old QED 79 strand on the main hifi system, but elsewhere I mostly use mains cable scavenged from broken vacuum cleaners dumped by the roadside or put out for recycling. It's substantial and comes in good long lengths.
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 3:17 pm   #100
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Out of interest, I've just been to Screwfix, and I had a look at some of their cheapest red & black speaker cable. They don't give a c.s.a. in their catalogue, but it measured about 0.85 mm diameter on my digital micrometer (difficult to be exact, since any pressure from micrometer jaws will distort profile - but at least in the right direction for "safety"). On my calculation that gives a c.s.a. of 1.8sq mm. Cross-googling, the TSL catalogue specs their own 1.5 sq mm flex with a current rating of 16 A. So 1.8 sq mm seems much more than adequate for any domestic speaker system. My Fluke tells me that the R of 25 metres is 1.7 ohms = 0.068 ohms/metre.

And, at £2.54 for 2x25 metres in Screwfix, you won't get anything much cheaper. I bought some - it's a cheap source of wire for chassis wiring. Inexplicably, the equivalent Screwfix cable with clear covered insulation is £11.51 for 25 metres !! - though it did look a little bit chunkier.

Last edited by Boulevardier; 8th Jun 2018 at 3:38 pm.
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