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Old 15th Sep 2022, 7:36 am   #21
Nuvistor
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

We only tended to repair what we were dealers for so I nearly always used the manufactures manuals, the occasional other repair I gleaned information from where I could, even a trip to the library for the R&TV books.
In general I didnít mind which service info I used as long as it was accurate, on new products manufacturers very often had excellent circuit descriptions, not available in other places.

As Mike states, itís horses for courses, use which works best for yourself but when using the forum itís best to stick to one type in the thread.

I have not repaired many USA sets but like to look at how others design their products. It took me a while to get my head around the USA style.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 12:45 pm   #22
zenitht
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

Hi, making steady progress and although the set is very much alive, it has low volume. I've changed the 2 caps mentioned previously and will start on the Hunts ones tomorrow.
A couple of things I noticed.
I bought a NOS EM80 but although it luminesces well, it doesn't change when turning in.
Secondly I noticed that on VHF, you have to move quite slowly along the dial in order to find stations. In other words, when moving along through BBC Radio 2, 3 and 4, you can easily miss them. If you catch them briefly then you can move slowly back and they increase in volume slightly.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 3:02 pm   #23
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

I can't remember what the aerial arrangement is on the Fenman 2, but it sounds like there's not much signal going into the set. I think I made a dipole for mine , by using some insulated wire stretched along a piece of cane.

Cheers

Aub
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 3:05 pm   #24
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

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Originally Posted by zenitht View Post
I bought a NOS EM80 but although it luminesces well, it doesn't change when turning in.
If you're just using the radio with the wire aerial on the back panel, even when a station sounds fairly loud, you'll see little change in the tuning indicator display. It needs a swing of several volts negative on the grid to alter the display significantly and you'll only get that with an external aerial. Even a few metres of wire will make a difference.

Might be worth checking the negative grid voltage of the EM80 both on and off tune, then trying it again with an external aerial.

EM80s are quite long lived, and I made the mistake of buying a new one, when I discovered that the old one performed just as well. (I even made a little EM80 tester to be sure). I plugged 3 Metres of wire into the external aerial socket and discovered that neither the radio nor the EM80 were faulty, it was just that the AGC voltage didn't vary much without an external aerial. (That was on a 'Fenman 1' - a much simpler radio of no particular note).
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 3:56 pm   #25
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

I'm a bit surprised that as in this thread, some forum members seem to favour the Trader Sheets above those of the Manufacturers, though sometimes it's helpful to have both. When members don't mention which version they are using, it always causes confusion as the component numberings invariably differ. (Trader Sheets were produced by Wireless & Electrical Trader in their own consistent 'house style' based on a sample radio supplied by the makers).

Generally, the maker's data will be much more comprehensive, particularly so with Bush sets.

Here are just a few examples:

Pye Fenman 1: Trader Sheet 4 pages, Pye's own data, 8 pages.
Pye Fenman II: Trader Sheet 6 pages, Pye's own data, 18 pages.
Bush DAC10: Trader Sheet 4 pages, Bush data, 12 pages.
Bush DAC90A: Trader sheet 2 pages, Bush data, 8 pages.
Bush TR82C: Trader Sheet 2 pages, Bush data, 8 pages.
Murphy A124: Trader Sheet 2 pages, Murphy data, 22 pages.

In the 70s, 'Trader Sheets' were termed 'ERT Service Charts' and to my eyes, had a much neater house style.
EG Service Chart 2182, five pages on the Roberts R505, but you also need the Maker's 5-page data for the PCB track layout.

I have Paul's DVD-ROM so for each radio I work on can look at both versions, but for anyone who downloads the occasional PDF, it's worth bearing in mind that as often as not, your £1.99 goes a bit further if you select the maker's data rather than Trader Sheet. Sometimes there isn't a Trader Sheet anyway. Hacker for example, but Hacker's own data is voluminous and detailed, typically 18 pages or so.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 4:53 pm   #26
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

There were ERT charts much older than the 1970s, I am pretty sure I've seen one for the Viewmaster home-build TV set.

There is at least one radio 'up top', an early superhet, where the manufacturer's manual does not include the alignment instructions (it is assumed the service workshop will not have an accurate signal generator and a 'scope) -- I think you were supposed to return the set to the factory. But one of the independant service sheets (maybe 'broadcaster' it's that old) does include said information. But that is very much the exception, and most of the time I work from the manufactuer's manual if available (Same with vintage computers, I prefer the manufactuer's manaul to Sams ComputerFacts if availbable, and indeed with things I can't mention here).

My view is that the DVDs are a bargain. If you're restoring just one set and will never do any others, then it's probably OK just to download the manual for that set. If fixing old electronics is going to be a hobby for you, then buy the DVDs, you will want them. Sometimes manuals for a related set, or a similar set with a different brand name, are useful. If you have the DVDs you can browse through them.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 6:40 pm   #27
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

Hi, with poor sensitivity it might be worth checkingthe caps on the AVC line for any leakage as well as the associated high value resistors for increase in value.

As David has pointed out the aerial sysyem also needs to be checked

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Old 5th Oct 2022, 11:24 pm   #28
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

Mike T said:
Quote:
I always struggle with some US circuit diagrams, they seem "upside down".
Exactly. The UK method (and thus the Oz and NZ) where the HT+ line is up at the top, the chassis or HT- is a fat line across the bottom with maybe the AGC and/or bias line is below the HT-, is far easier to follow - also with the antenna on the left and the power supply on the right. A place for everything and everything in its place! In contrast, some US 'schematics' are just a muddle.
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 9:08 am   #29
Herald1360
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

There is some logic to the US style, in that all of the supply rails are at signal ground but any circuit diagram that doesn't have a tidy left to right signal flow with the psu either far right or underneath can be very difficult to follow!
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 9:54 am   #30
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

Reading schematics left to right and a particular way up is logical to a lot of folks because that's what a lot of folks do, like reading across the page of a book, however in many cases it's not reading the circuit as they would like it to be, hence they end up confused, a good troubleshooter can read a schematic/circuit diagram no problem whicheverways it is.

Lawrence.
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 10:08 am   #31
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

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Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
Reading schematics left to right and a particular way up is logical to a lot of folks because that's what a lot of folks do, like reading across the page of a book, however in many cases it's not reading the circuit as they would like it to be, hence they end up confused, a good troubleshooter can read a schematic/circuit diagram no problem whicheverways it is.

Lawrence.
I'm definitely a signal flow left to right man. And proud of it
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 10:47 am   #32
ms660
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Default Re: Pye Fenman II

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Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
I'm definitely a signal flow left to right man. And proud of it
Negative feedback ?

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