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Old 18th Jan 2020, 2:01 pm   #1
Chris55000
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Default Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

Hi!

If I've asked this before and forgotten, my apologies!

I am picking up a TQ D75 cheap next Saturday, the seller said he couldn't see any therms in the CRT I fear it could have o/c CRT heaters, as the LED's on and he said he could hear e.h.t. hissing, so the mains transformer is obviously alive and well!

In the meantime tho', I propose to completely strip it down to bare PCBs so I can place both sides of the PCBs on a scanner to scan and trace over them!

I can trace over them with my sPlan but this can't do semi–transparent objects – will Inkscape handle this?

TQ D75 PCBs are relatively small and relatively uncluttered layout, so hopefully not too difficult!

I'm trying to recreate the original light blue/yellow PCB drawings in semi–transparent mode to overlay them on top and then produce a printout similar to TQ's original!

The only downloadable TQ D75 manual is absolutely atrocious in quality – it must be the worst of all the free TQ manuals – it's PCB drawings are totally illegible!

I've got the 'scope, original drawing & text fonts, circuit–diagram and vector drawing and image software – I just need some tips/pointers/links to tutorials to get started now!

Finally, if the CRT heaters are o/c when I get into it I'll be in the running for another via the "Wanted" threads, but not just for the moment!

Chris Williams
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 2:09 pm   #2
Chris55000
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

PS!

If anyone has an original D75 TQ Manual and can scan and upload the coloured PCB diagrams from it I'd appreciate this, as making new PCB drawings is the most involved part of my replacement D75 manual project – all the rest I can tackle easy enough, including printing it on original coloured paper like the original was made! (Hobbycraft)

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Old 18th Jan 2020, 3:46 pm   #3
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

There was a post in the Antique Radio Forum requesting a copy of the D75 manual here:

https://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=155275

The response was:

Quote:

‘A copy of the D83 scope manual, which is a.f.a.i.k. a re-packaged D75, using the same plug-ins is available on the BAMA mirror site’.

http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/telequipment/

Unquote.

I've just visited that link and the PCB component overlays look perfectly legible to me, but I've no idea if that's what you are after.

I may have misunderstood what you are trying to do with the PCB diagrams, but you can colour them any colour that you wish to by using the 'paint pot' facility in programs such as Paint, Photoshop etc. If for example you wish to show the PCB actual tracks, you could fill the areas with black. If you then wanted to show a more feint colour to show the component side of the PCB with the tracks shown as an 'X-Ray' of the PCB, you could use the first image, reverse it and fill the tracks in a lighter colour of your choice using the 'paint pot' facility.

I might be wide of the mark as to what you are trying to achieve, but as an example, below is a PCB layout which I designed for the 'Mini-Mod' pantry transmitter, then using that PCB layout in reverse, I changed the colour of the tracks to light grey to create the component overlay. Just selected the desired colour from the colour palette, then one click on each of the tracks to change the colour and save the drawing as 'Component Overlay'.

Hope that might help a bit, but sorry if I've misunderstood what you're trying to do.

Good luck with the scope Chris.
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 5:47 pm   #4
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

Chris, I have the original D75 manual here. It includes the blue/yellow "transparency". Colour print on tracing paper would be my description.
I will be emailing you later. I have never had a faulty D75 CRT, but they use one common to the TEK 465 series I think.
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 9:52 pm   #5
Chris55000
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

Hi!

One other reason I'd like to know about making coloured PCB drawings is for the Hitachi V680 Oscilloscope - there's a service manual on "Elektrotanya" but this another lousy quality Mauritron 1-bit scan with totally illegible PCB layouts and the wave-forms on it's circuit diagrams were so bad they're invisible!

A number of EEV Blog Forum Members have cursed this and the chance of getting an original Hitachi/Denshi scan or manual with readable info are just about nil!

I saw an original V680 S.M. at a calibration firm I worked for for a while - it had A3 colour pullouts of the PCBs with the PCBs in pink and green with black overlays and voltage readings in light blue, with light blue waveform sketches on the circuit diagrams! How Mauritron, etc., can reduce this to the unreadable dark black dotty splodges they furnish is beyond me!

(Needless to say this firm totally refused to loan or copy anything, even for employees' limited personal use!)

Chris Williams
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 1:32 am   #6
Ed_Dinning
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

Hi Chris, slightly off track, but the Ez-PC software that I have will print out PCB tracks in various colours and will also print 3D versions of a PCB showing component placements.
In the full version it will also import Gerber files for reverse engineering.

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Old 19th Jan 2020, 11:15 am   #7
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

Not sure if you are trying to create images of the component side with the track side showing through, but I did this a few times starting with photographs of both sides. Taken from about the same distance, or better, use a copy stand to set the distance the same, you can use pdn (paint.Net) to create a multiple layer drawing and reverse the copper side and move, rotate, resize etc then add more layers for annotations and component designations. You can alter the transparency of layers, even correct for trapezoidal distortion when the board is not flat-on to the camera.
You then can print layers separately or combined. I'll dig out some examples later if it helps.
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 8:00 pm   #8
Chris55000
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

Hi!

Please Julian!

That sounds exactly what I'm trying to do!

I've now been able to buy a Hitachi V680 spares or repair at a price I could afford, so if you could post your examples when time permits I'd appreciate it!

Incidentally I was given an Easy–PC licence from an old employer when the electronics dept. was closed, so when funds next permit I can ring up Number One Systems for their latest upgrade disc!

Chris Williams
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 9:44 pm   #9
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

Here's one I made earlier! I found it helpful for working on a faulty PCB and is optimised for following the copper-side tracks

I find PDN intuitive and quick to use, especially when you learn a few simple keyboard shortcuts. For a quick tutorial on editing images see http://www.rosestone.me.uk/Image_Editing/
To use 'Layers' hit F7 and try to work it out, or see the help files linked from PDN
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 4:34 am   #10
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Default Re: Tracing PCBs to make new drawings with transparent layers??

If you want to edit, then either generating new ones with a PCB creation programme would be the way to go, to get all the components most simply, or using a vector editor like Inkscape, Illustrator or Affinity Designer. The latter would enable the tracks to be stroked lines so you could tweak the thickness and colour to your heart's content.

Numerous layers for the different parts, and working from a base imported raster image is also possible. With vector editing, the advantage would be in no loss of quality with re-sizing if you need to use the same drawings at different scales.
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