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Old 4th Jun 2012, 8:22 pm   #1
ekcopyephilips
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Default "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Hi all

Not sure if this is the right section for this. This afternoon I was watching 'On the buses' and some of the scenes were filmed outside. I'm presuming that in the 70's all outside stuff was recorded onto film, to me obvious by the scratches and different colour balance and usually quite dark (and contrasty?)in those outside scenes.
But some of the episodes that have outside scenes must have used a different film recording technique as the scene is very high standard and does not look dated, its almost as if it wasn't for the clothes to give away the era you would think it was something that had been filmed in the nineties. Has anyone else noticed this? Personally I don't like it, I like the nostalgic 'feel' of the other type of film used for outside scenes.
What type of film would have been used to give the high quality effect?

Cheers

Mike
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 9:54 am   #2
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Hello Mike -

Funnily enough I'm just reading 'The making of On the Buses' by Tex Fisher, and this gets a brief mention.

Derrick Goodwin says "I don't know why we bothered with location filming, because it was always so embarrassing. The footage was grainy and of generally poor quality and it stuck out like a sore thumb within a piece of studio footage. I cringe when I see it".

"A director friend of mine called Jim Goddard had noticed how the BBC had small cameras behind the goals at football matches. They were small and reliable and they were great, absolutely fantastic and became the main choice to use in the future.."


He doesn't say whether they were TV cameras or film. It sounds as if they may have been video, as surely any 'small' film camera of the period would have used 16mm and suffered the same problems as their existing cameras.
Does the footage you are talking about look like video rather than film?

If I find any more detail I'll post it here.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 10:09 am   #3
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

I never knew there was book about the filming! I somehow knew that On the Buses was filmed in Boreham Wood Herts but I always wondered who owned the buses and where had they come from - if anyone knows it would be great!

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Old 5th Jun 2012, 12:06 pm   #4
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Apollo - the buses were owned and run by Eastern National at Wood Green. London Transport refused to supply buses for the series, but as writer Ronald Wolfe explained 'we just had to have real buses to make the series more realistic, but LT thought the idea of showing bus drivers as lazy, work-shy skivers might give them a bad reputation!'
'We had this big hoarding made to fit outside the EN depot, proclaiming it to be The Luxton Bus Company.'

This is all from the book. It's a good read, if a bit contradictory and unclear in parts. There is also a generous sprinkling of typos, poor editing and factual errors (AFAIK there was no-one by the name of Shirley Hancock in The Rag trade!). It is published by Deck Chair Publishing.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 1:02 pm   #5
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Remember that productions of this vintage will have undergone varying amounts of digital processing by now, and this can affect the look of 16mm film inserts. In general it makes the inserts look more like studio video.

There was always a noticeable change of look between film and studio segments in 60s and 70s British TV. This isn't always down to the use of film in itself - studio lighting techniques were mostly derived from theatrical rather than cinema practice back then, and this gave the pictures a very stagey look.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 1:28 pm   #6
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Hi Andrew - regarding The Rag Trade, it was Sheila Hancock, John Thaw's wife.
Possibly also Barbara Windsor's first tv appearance. Quite a few of the other actors went on to other series and films etc.

On the Buses is currently being shown on one of the Freeview channels.

Personally I was/am not a fan as the humour is weak, with (perhaps) only the actors laughing. Have to agree, the outside shots do now appear pretty good.

Worth watching for the Clippies though!

Good Luck - Mike
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 1:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
Apollo - the buses were owned and run by Eastern National at Wood Green. London Transport refused to supply buses for the series, but as writer Ronald Wolfe explained 'we just had to have real buses to make the series more realistic, but LT thought the idea of showing bus drivers as lazy, work-shy skivers might give them a bad reputation!'
'We had this big hoarding made to fit outside the EN depot, proclaiming it to be The Luxton Bus Company.'

This is all from the book. It's a good read, if a bit contradictory and unclear in parts. There is also a generous sprinkling of typos, poor editing and factual errors (AFAIK there was no-one by the name of Shirley Hancock in The Rag trade!). It is published by Deck Chair Publishing.
Thanks for that Andrew - I always wondered as some of the buses in the film had a Nottingham reg so I had always wondered. KR's Apollo.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 1:46 pm   #8
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

"... but LT thought the idea of showing bus drivers as lazy, work-shy skivers might give them a bad reputation!"

Having done time in PSV work (when I had hair), I can categorically confirm the majority of LT drivers who moved to civilised rural areas were as LT feared to portray!! Ouch!

'The Rag Trade' - Miriam Karlin, Elsie Cannon, Peter Jones ... and now TV has the audacity to call today's "comedy", comedy!!

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Old 5th Jun 2012, 2:03 pm   #9
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

I did notice that some of the 'outdoor' scenes on the series, for example a few shots of them in a park with a bus were actually elaborate indoor scenes on the mid shots and location shots on 16mm for the long shots, though I had to look twice...they'd been carefully matched, lighting wise.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 4:25 pm   #10
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
'The Rag Trade' - Miriam Karlin, Elsie Cannon, Peter Jones
Not Elsie Cannon, she was Esma Cannon.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 6:08 pm   #11
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

'On The Buses' was an early and enduring success for the fledgling London Weekend television, starting in 1969 in black and white.

Some of the colour episodes in 1970 (series 3 or 4?) used location videotape, which accounts for the fact it looks like it was made last week. I find this rather fascinating as you can see street scenes in amazing clarity! Initially the cameras used would the same as those in the studio and would have required a significant amount of on-site support (i.e. several large vehicles, including a generator parked far enough away not to be heard on the soundtrack). These OB (Outside Broadcast) units were most often used in sports events and I believe any minor location work for a show like 'On The Buses' would often be scheduled when the vans were on their way to or from another event.

Philips produced an early hand-held (or 'shoulder balanced') colour video camera in the early 70s (there's an excellent demo of it on children's show Magpie in 1972 if you search a well known video clips website). This was used extensively in the 'On The Buses' special 'On The Ominibuses' in 1973, making the programme look strangely like a live news report!

The earliest use of colour location video I have seen in a sitcom is during episodes of 'Doctor At Large' (London Weekend again) from earlier in '69. Thames were also keen on using location VT around 1969/70, whilst Granada were using it in the late 60s (in b&w 405 lines) in dramas such as 'Spindoe' and 'Big Breadwinner Hogg'.

The technique fell out of favour- probably for a combination of practical or financial reasons and studio videotape with filmed location inserts became the norm for both BBC and ITV well into the 1980s.

I'll just get me anorak.....

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Last edited by Colourstar; 5th Jun 2012 at 6:11 pm. Reason: Added more anorak-y detail
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 6:25 pm   #12
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

One ex Eastern National driver told me some years ago that some scenes were shot at their small bus depot in Southend which overlooked Pier Hill. Long demolished and now The Royal Shopping Centre. Not sure if true.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 10:58 pm   #13
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekcopyephilips View Post
Hi all

Not sure if this is the right section for this. This afternoon I was watching 'On the buses' and some of the scenes were filmed outside. I'm presuming that in the 70's all outside stuff was recorded onto film, to me obvious by the scratches and different colour balance and usually quite dark (and contrasty?)in those outside scenes.
But some of the episodes that have outside scenes must have used a different film recording technique as the scene is very high standard and does not look dated, its almost as if it wasn't for the clothes to give away the era you would think it was something that had been filmed in the nineties. Has anyone else noticed this? Personally I don't like it, I like the nostalgic 'feel' of the other type of film used for outside scenes.
What type of film would have been used to give the high quality effect?

Cheers

Mike
I believe it depended on the film stock and how accurately the telekine engineer set up the machine for transferring it. Some haven't even been graded correctly.

Many LWT sitcoms of the time, including LWT, used early OB video equipment in many of their outdoor sequences - Doctor in the House being another one, though I think Please Sir had all film sequences outdoors.
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Old 5th Jun 2012, 11:04 pm   #14
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colourstar View Post
'Some of the colour episodes in 1970 (series 3 or 4?) used location videotape, which accounts for the fact it looks like it was made last week. I find this rather fascinating as you can see street scenes in amazing clarity! Initially the cameras used would the same as those in the studio and would have required a significant amount of on-site support (i.e. several large vehicles, including a generator parked far enough away not to be heard on the soundtrack). These OB (Outside Broadcast) units were most often used in sports events and I believe any minor location work for a show like 'On The Buses' would often be scheduled when the vans were on their way to or from another event.
The thought of moving EMI 2001s or Marconi MkVIIs around that often . . . *shudder*
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Old 6th Jun 2012, 2:06 am   #15
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post

This is all from the book. It's a good read, if a bit contradictory and unclear in parts. There is also a generous sprinkling of typos, poor editing and factual errors (AFAIK there was no-one by the name of Shirley Hancock in The Rag trade!). It is published by Deck Chair Publishing.
The Wiki article says otherwise, altghough there is no mention of her being in "On the Buses".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rag_Trade
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Old 6th Jun 2012, 8:55 am   #16
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Hi all,

Thanks for the answers, yes it absolutely looks like a videotape recording rather than film, the clarity is amazing although although I still prefer the film recording because of the nostalgic effect. Thanks for all your answers

Mike
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Old 6th Jun 2012, 9:01 am   #17
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonForce View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post

This is all from the book. It's a good read, if a bit contradictory and unclear in parts. There is also a generous sprinkling of typos, poor editing and factual errors (AFAIK there was no-one by the name of Shirley Hancock in The Rag trade!). It is published by Deck Chair Publishing.
The Wiki article says otherwise, altghough there is no mention of her being in "On the Buses".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rag_Trade
I'm sorry Dragonforce, but I still can't see the name 'Shirley Hancock' in the cast list of The Rag Trade. Sheila Hancock was a regular, but no Shirley Hancock. This is what I meant when I referred to factual errors in the book.
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Old 6th Jun 2012, 10:34 am   #18
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekcopyephilips View Post
Hi all,
thanks for the answers, yes it absolutely looks like a videotape recording rather than film, the clarity is amazing although although i still prefer the film recording because of the nostalgic effect. Thanks for all your answers

Mike
The problem with the 'nostalgic effect' is that it was there when the shows were new! I remember asking why the picture had 'suddenly gone old', and not having technically-minded parents left me having to work it out for myself.

I initially decided they had made the series out of an old film!
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Old 6th Jun 2012, 12:45 pm   #19
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekcopyephilips View Post
Hi all,

Thanks for the answers, yes it absolutely looks like a videotape recording rather than film, the clarity is amazing although although I still prefer the film recording because of the nostalgic effect. Thanks for all your answers

Mike
They look very smeary, in common with the studio cameras but more so, due to comet tailing of the camera tubes.
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Old 6th Jun 2012, 1:00 pm   #20
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Default Re: "On The Buses" filming techniques?

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The thought of moving EMI 2001s or Marconi MkVIIs around that often . . . *shudder*
This was done everyday in BBC Outside Broadcasts. No one there batted an eyelid, we just got on with it....


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