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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 7:57 pm   #1
Panrock
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Default 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

I seem to recall reading somewhere that certain up-market blocks of London flats in the late 1930s came with built-in wired television access points. Presumably these were fed from an always-on distribution amplifier and a main aerial.

Does anybody have information about the prevalence of this practice, the sockets and technology involved, the likely results, etc.? Ignition interference, serious ghosting, and diathermy equipment in hospitals must have otherwise spoiled reception in central London at the time.

I well remember how difficult it was to get a good picture from Crystal Palace on Ch1 in an upper-storey flat in Holborn in the 1960s. The signal strength wasn't a problem, but everything else was! A centralised aerial system would have made sense.

Maybe this sort of Ch.1 distribution scheme was even extended after the war?

Thanks,

Steve
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 8:29 pm   #2
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Will help your search, WW Dec 16th 1937 page 605.

https://www.americanradiohistory.com...ld-1937-12.pdf
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 8:46 pm   #3
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Absolutely brilliant, Frank! This might be the article I remember seeing years ago.

Interesting they should feature a Baird receiver. Pre-war Bairds often included a 'mains aerial' for television. Quite what sort of picture was to be obtained this way was probably down to luck.


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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 8:47 pm   #4
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

My Grandmother who lived in Vauxhall Bridge Road SW1 had a Radio Relay cabled television until 1968 - possibly later - she had BBC2 as soon as it came out, presumably with some sort of standards conversion at the send end.

All came out of a 12 pin Painton Jones plug on the wall, as I remember.
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 8:49 pm   #5
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
WW Dec 16th 1937 page 605
Page 605 is the 51st page of the PDF.
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 8:56 pm   #6
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

There was a USA TV manufacturer that included some form of internal aerial with their sets and I think suggested it was good enough for 8 out of 10 installations.

Perhaps I shouldn’t doubt them but I think they must have been 8 carefully chosen locations, shame on me for doubting them.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 9:21 am   #7
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Mega-divergence. I see the "Trapp singers from Salzburg' feature both on Radio and Television. Presumably the famous Von Trapp family?
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 9:38 am   #8
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Steve,
If you want lots of information on cable systems this is a useful resource, it’s USA centric but worth looking through. The main cable system in the UK were designed and built by Rediffusion but I don’t know how much technical information is still available.
https://www.americanradiohistory.com...unications.htm
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 9:53 am   #9
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

There's some information about Rediffusion here, though I don'tknow that much would be described as "technical".

There was also a thread here about Rediffusion a couple of years ago, and another about early cable a few years earlier.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 10:29 am   #10
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

You could get away with very simple aerials in strong signal areas, so a mains aerial could have been satisfactory. In the early 1970's I investigated the poor reception at my Uncle's in Loughton, Essex after he had moved house, and found I could get a pretty well perfect picture by sticking a sixpenny screwdriver in the aerial socket. His house was half-way up a hill that faced Crystal Palace. (The fault was a joint, made with insulating tape, that had shorted the inner and outer of the coax feeder.) At that time another uncle who lived in Bow, East London, was managing very well with about a foot of a strand of bell wire stuck in the aerial socket, but his TV was on the second floor.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 11:44 am   #11
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Indoor aerials could give good pictures but the sets of the early 60’s onwards with frame grid valves and later transistors were much more sensitive than the Baird from 1937.

In some flats the communial aerial system were so poor that very often an indoor aerial worked better. Until around 1970 onwards the communial aerials in the council flats in Wigan were very poor at times.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 1:04 pm   #12
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Just in case anyone (like me) thought "Picture Page" was a light entertainment show, take a look at P562 (p4 of the PDF) under the heading "Ether Policeman Televised".

Can you imagine a spectrum compliance spokesperson from OFCOM being interviewed by Lorraine Kelly?
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 1:14 pm   #13
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

My parents had a British relay cable T.v in Peterborough from around 1961 until 1972/3. We had the same set for all of that time. when my dad decided to have a colour set relay couldn't install in time for Christmas so we rented from Granada for a year until they bought a set.
There is still a fair bit left of the old British relay cable system, boxes on houses and the odd bit of cable still strung around.
On 405 BBC1 could be picked up on a short length of wire. ITV was a bit more challenging and UHF really needed a roof aerial especially if the set was an early 625 with a valve tuner.
A lot of the then 'new estates' in Peterborough were tied to relay as the council (or development corporation) wouldn't allow what they considered to be unsightly roof aerials. If you had a loft aerial it needed an expensive amplifier.

The rules were relaxed when relay shut down, I wonder what they would make of the satellite dishes and aerial arrays that adorn the houses now...

Rich.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 3:54 pm   #14
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Just in case anyone (like me) thought "Picture Page" was a light entertainment show, take a look at P562 (p4 of the PDF) under the heading "Ether Policeman Televised".
… where it goes on to say:

"One day M. Braillard may be keeping a check on the world's television wavelengths. The idea is not far-fetched when one remembers that in Cape Town the 7-metre sound signal from Alexandra Palace is picked up almost nightly".

Glory days!

Steve
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 4:38 pm   #15
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Then there is this.
https://archive.org/details/BbcTelev...InNewYork-1938

To say I am sceptical about this being genuine would be an understatement.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 5:00 pm   #16
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

It's genuine!
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 6:16 pm   #17
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

I would dearly like to believe it's genuine, the basic footage along with the fading and ghosting is typical of European SpE that I have received myself and does not seem to be fake.

That said, everything else about it seems suspect.
The CRT mask corners seem too square for a pre-war TV
The film camera shutter created no artifacts on the picture, and even if it was genlocked to the incoming frame sync we would see it lose sync when the signal fades out.

The black filmic flecking does not seem genuine somehow. It looks just like the post-production effect modern producers like to apply to video footage to make it look like film, or even worse, apply to genuine vintage footage that they don't think looks vintage enough. I can see some white flecks too that look OK, but both being present suggests that a negative/positive rather than a reversal film process was used. Reversal would have been the obvious choice.

And finally what we are looking at is clearly a dub onto helically scanned video media, the switching points at the bottom look very much like VHS,
so the dub must have happened in the 1980s or later, so was the source material used for this dub lost since that time? Perhaps the original film? If not why isn't there a higher resolution copy available?


Of all the above, it's the black film flecking that I have most problems with, it looks like an overdone post effect.

As I said I would really like to be proved wrong about this, in a Santa Claus Tooth Fairy sort of way.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 6:55 pm   #18
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

I've known Andrew Emmerson
for over 40 years,he's probably laughing away reading this.
You're looking at typical F2 layer reception,which would be very difficult to fake.
It was recorded by RCA research labs
as far as I remember.
The moon landings were also genuine
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 8:00 pm   #19
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

If you recall, the fact that it shows a genuine propagation phonominum is the bit I accept.
Neither am I questioning the integrity of Andrew Emmerson or any other person.

Honestly, I am not a conspiracy theorist or one who posts "fake" in NASA youtube comments!

If this is genuine, it is of enormous historical value. I want to believe.

What I can't find is the provenance, the historical context that goes with the footage, in particular, where is the original film?
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 8:19 pm   #20
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Default Re: 'Cable Television' in the 1930s

Presumably the film is still with
Maurice Schecheter,see below.

https://archive.org/details/BbcTelev...InNewYork-1938

All this was done 20 years ago
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