|
Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc. |
|
Thread Tools |
18th Jun 2016, 2:47 pm | #1 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resolven, Wales; and Bristol, England
Posts: 2,614
|
Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I saw this today in a museum in The Hague. It has the same tape loop principle as the Watkins Copicat but seems to be built like a brick sh*thouse and seems to be an earlier design. I know there are several versions of the tape echo machine, but I always thought that JW invented it.
__________________
Richard Index: recursive loop: see recursive loop |
18th Jun 2016, 3:02 pm | #2 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 297
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
This was made by Echolette of Munich, Germany.
See http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/klemt_e...g51sng_51.html Roy |
18th Jun 2016, 3:27 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 3,326
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I have a vague feeling that I heard early tape echo was attributed to Les Paul of multi layer recording fame.
|
18th Jun 2016, 5:14 pm | #4 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resolven, Wales; and Bristol, England
Posts: 2,614
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
A bit of research this afternoon (it's raining in Den Haag) reveals that Watkins put the first Copicat together in 1958, the Maestro Echoplex was let out in 1959 and the unit I saw today, the Klemt-Echolette in 1960.
Another source lists Ray Butts as the original inventor of the idea of using a tape loop "in the 1950's" so it might be that several people knew about that and were variously quick to make a commercial machine.
__________________
Richard Index: recursive loop: see recursive loop |
18th Jun 2016, 9:20 pm | #5 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK.
Posts: 2,198
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
Wasn't the Binson Echorec one of the original tape delay echo devices? It was very much part of the sound of The Shadows from Apache onwards and used to great effect by Hank Marvin with his Vox amp.
I do recall producing something like that effect for our ad hoc College band performing Wonderful Land at a concert back in '62 using an extra playback head on my tape recorder with feedback to the record amp. Martin
__________________
BVWS Member |
18th Jun 2016, 9:59 pm | #6 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Folkestone, Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,172
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I think vidjoman is correct, the first use was by Les Paul, thanks to Bing Crosby's investment in Ampex multitrack tape recording technology. I spoke to Charlie Watkins and he talked about hearing a record that had echo on it circa 1958, that inspired him to get his tech to design the prototype Copicat.
|
18th Jun 2016, 10:20 pm | #7 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,834
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I think it was the Meazzi Factotum. Meazzi were certainly one of the first to make a self contained, portable, tape loop machine. http://www.ac15.org.uk/meazzi/index.htm
But Bill Purkis designed the Waktins Copycat. How much of its design he owes to existing designs, we can only guess. Re Les Paul, 'echo' and a 'tape loop' are two different things. I think Les Paul just used the former, but yes he was a pioneer in the use of echo, not sure about his (early) association with tape loops though..
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever.. Last edited by stevehertz; 18th Jun 2016 at 10:35 pm. |
19th Jun 2016, 9:31 am | #8 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Carmel, Llannerchymedd, Anglesey, UK.
Posts: 1,509
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
Quote:
He produced some great stuff with his wife supplying the vocals - I still have a couple of treasured items. Les. |
|
20th Jun 2016, 5:10 pm | #9 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 3,051
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I was going to suggest as a contender whatever Duane Eddy used, but to my surprise it turns out to have been an echo-chamber based on a water tank. I had always assumed that it was artificial echo.
|
25th Jun 2016, 1:31 pm | #10 |
Pentode
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lynchburg, Central Virginia, USA.
Posts: 137
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
Ah, the Klemt Echolette NG51. These have a pretty good reputation, assuming you can find one with decent condition heads. They were often paired with the four-channel Echolette M40 and used in live PA situations. This and other similar setups from the likes of competitor Dynacord were apparently quite popular in places like Hamburg during the late 50s through the late 60s.
Much of their "reputation" no doubt is owed to the Beatles-effect that appears to jack up the prices on anything even remotely connected to them. No doubt they played through similar setups at their many club gigs before they made the big time. I have an M40 on the bench right now. I am reconditioning it to be used on the road again as a multi-channel guitar amp. They are like working on the old Telefunken or other W. German radios. Incredibly cramped and difficult to work in. I also had to strip out some of the old 22 ga. wire used throughout as it was brittle also was used in output and power supply sections. :/ Still, beefy PT, OT and they sound lovely. |
8th Jul 2016, 6:18 pm | #11 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tadley, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I think you'll find that the late Charlie Watkins invented the Watkins Copicat
|
8th Jul 2016, 8:21 pm | #12 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,834
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
Not at all, Bill Purkis (Charlie's designer) designed the Watkins copycat.
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever.. |
9th Jul 2016, 2:15 pm | #13 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,927
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I wonder if the name 'copicat' meant it was based on someone else's work?!
|
9th Jul 2016, 6:03 pm | #14 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Folkestone, Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,172
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I think the name alludes to the echo being a copy (Copi) of the original - rather clever !
Of interest, I have hours of video (DV) of Charlie Watkins talking about his life and work, which I intend to edit and release at some point in the future |
9th Jul 2016, 9:25 pm | #16 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I would have thought that the idea of creating a delay by recording a signal onto tape and picking it up again downstream would have been pretty obvious. So the concept of a tape-loop echo probably arose independently several times in different places.
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments. |
10th Jul 2016, 1:47 pm | #17 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,834
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
Back in the early 90s I wrote a history of the Watkins Westminster that is - for those who don't know - a small combo guitar amplifier with an 8" speaker in it. It has a single EL84 output bottle. As part of the process I spoke with Charlie Watkins on a couple of occasions to further my info and also to get his approval. He was very helpful. The Westminster would have been considered a low power stage amp in its time, but by the 70s it was known as a 'practise amp'. The breakup pattern (distortion) of it was very nice when overdriven; kinda sweet yet aggressive at the same time as only an 'EL' valve amp can be. I think the Westminster went to something like mk6 level before it stopped, but saying that, there are probably over a dozen 'variations'; http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/brita...stminster.html
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever.. |
10th Jul 2016, 5:20 pm | #18 |
Heptode
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 538
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
|
10th Jul 2016, 5:35 pm | #19 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tadley, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 77
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
|
10th Jul 2016, 10:34 pm | #20 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,834
|
Re: Who invented the Watkins Copicat?
I stand corrected, I was speaking from memory as I sold mine about 15 years ago.
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever.. |