Who invented the Watkins Copicat?

[mole42uk]

I saw this today in a museum in The Hague. It has the same tape loop principle as the Watkins Copicat but seems to be built like a brick sh*thouse and seems to be an earlier design. I know there are several versions of the tape echo machine, but I always thought that JW invented it.

[AVO_VCM163]

This was made by Echolette of Munich, Germany.

See http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/klemt_e...g51sng_51.html

Roy

[vidjoman]

I have a vague feeling that I heard early tape echo was attributed to Les Paul of multi layer recording fame.

[mole42uk]

A bit of research this afternoon (it's raining in Den Haag) reveals that Watkins put the first Copicat together in 1958, the Maestro Echoplex was let out in 1959 and the unit I saw today, the Klemt-Echolette in 1960.
Another source lists Ray Butts as the original inventor of the idea of using a tape loop "in the 1950's" so it might be that several people knew about that and were variously quick to make a commercial machine.

[Hartley118]

Wasn't the Binson Echorec one of the original tape delay echo devices? It was very much part of the sound of The Shadows from Apache onwards and used to great effect by Hank Marvin with his Vox amp.

I do recall producing something like that effect for our ad hoc College band performing Wonderful Land at a concert back in '62 using an extra playback head on my tape recorder with feedback to the record amp.

Martin

[ITAM805]

I think vidjoman is correct, the first use was by Les Paul, thanks to Bing Crosby's investment in Ampex multitrack tape recording technology. I spoke to Charlie Watkins and he talked about hearing a record that had echo on it circa 1958, that inspired him to get his tech to design the prototype Copicat.

[stevehertz]

I think it was the Meazzi Factotum. Meazzi were certainly one of the first to make a self contained, portable, tape loop machine. http://www.ac15.org.uk/meazzi/index.htm

But Bill Purkis designed the Waktins Copycat. How much of its design he owes to existing designs, we can only guess.

Re Les Paul, 'echo' and a 'tape loop' are two different things. I think Les Paul just used the former, but yes he was a pioneer in the use of echo, not sure about his (early) association with tape loops though..

[lesmw0sec]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

Re Les Paul, 'echo' and a 'tape loop' are two different things. I think Les Paul just used the former, but yes he was a pioneer in the use of echo, not sure about his (early) association with tape loops though.

I seem to recall that Les Paul used a 'get it right or else' mono system, where the last recording from the tape was added to the new 'track' for the next layer of recording. The snag being that an erase head preceded the record & replay head, so if you did not get the notes right you lost the whole thing and had to start from scratch! Multi-track working must have seemed like heaven after that!

He produced some great stuff with his wife supplying the vocals - I still have a couple of treasured items.

Les.

[dseymo1]

I was going to suggest as a contender whatever Duane Eddy used, but to my surprise it turns out to have been an echo-chamber based on a water tank. I had always assumed that it was artificial echo.

[Goodizzy]

Ah, the Klemt Echolette NG51. These have a pretty good reputation, assuming you can find one with decent condition heads. They were often paired with the four-channel Echolette M40 and used in live PA situations. This and other similar setups from the likes of competitor Dynacord were apparently quite popular in places like Hamburg during the late 50s through the late 60s.

Much of their "reputation" no doubt is owed to the Beatles-effect that appears to jack up the prices on anything even remotely connected to them. No doubt they played through similar setups at their many club gigs before they made the big time.

I have an M40 on the bench right now. I am reconditioning it to be used on the road again as a multi-channel guitar amp. They are like working on the old Telefunken or other W. German radios. Incredibly cramped and difficult to work in. I also had to strip out some of the old 22 ga. wire used throughout as it was brittle also was used in output and power supply sections. :/

Still, beefy PT, OT and they sound lovely.

[Pitchfork]

I think you'll find that the late Charlie Watkins invented the Watkins Copicat

[stevehertz]

Not at all, Bill Purkis (Charlie's designer) designed the Watkins copycat.

[Welsh Anorak]

I wonder if the name 'copicat' meant it was based on someone else's work?!

[ITAM805]

I think the name alludes to the echo being a copy (Copi) of the original - rather clever !

Of interest, I have hours of video (DV) of Charlie Watkins talking about his life and work, which I intend to edit and release at some point in the future

[ITAM805]

The plot thickens .... EchoSonic 1955

[julie_m]

I would have thought that the idea of creating a delay by recording a signal onto tape and picking it up again downstream would have been pretty obvious. So the concept of a tape-loop echo probably arose independently several times in different places.

[stevehertz]

Back in the early 90s I wrote a history of the Watkins Westminster that is - for those who don't know - a small combo guitar amplifier with an 8" speaker in it. It has a single EL84 output bottle. As part of the process I spoke with Charlie Watkins on a couple of occasions to further my info and also to get his approval. He was very helpful. The Westminster would have been considered a low power stage amp in its time, but by the 70s it was known as a 'practise amp'. The breakup pattern (distortion) of it was very nice when overdriven; kinda sweet yet aggressive at the same time as only an 'EL' valve amp can be. I think the Westminster went to something like mk6 level before it stopped, but saying that, there are probably over a dozen 'variations'; http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/brita...stminster.html

[vampyretim]

Originally Posted by ITAM805

I think the name alludes to the echo being a copy (Copi) of the original - rather clever !

It was apparently spelt copicat and not copycat because a photocopier company had trademarked the name copycat.

[Pitchfork]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

Back in the early 90s I wrote a history of the Watkins Westminster that is - for those who don't know - a small combo guitar amplifier with an 8" speaker in it.

My 1964 Westminster & a 1959 that I have just repaired for someone have 10" Elac speakers not 8"

[stevehertz]

I stand corrected, I was speaking from memory as I sold mine about 15 years ago.