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Old 9th Apr 2018, 7:59 pm   #1
John10b
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Default Bush AC34

I’m in the process of refurbishing the above radio.
I have never attempted wooden cabinets before, only Record Players using Rexine etc, the electronics no problem.
On the top of the cabinet is the Bush sign, how do I preserve this if I’m going to rubdown the cabinet, can i get a Bush “stamp” or such like.
Also what colour wood stain would you suggest, I don’t have a good eye for colour matching and I’m trying to keep to the original, as close as possible.
Any tips or suggestions I would be very grateful.
Cheers
John
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 9:12 pm   #2
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Hi John, I have exactly the same question for my AC31. Logo is almost pristine and I would rather not lose it. I have taken several high res photographs in case I do though!
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 9:22 pm   #3
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Default Re: Bush AC34

On my AC34(the one in my profile picture) I just stripped the finish around it using paint stripper from Screwfix and a scraper and then refinished using Colron antique oil making sure not to get it on the logo. It's not perfect but doesn't look too bad. Not particularly close to the original finish though, it was just what I had in stock but I would imagine it would be a similar process no matter what you use. A piece of masking tape cut to size could help preserve it.

Cameron
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 7:58 am   #4
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Do you get a colour using Colron Oil, and is there any shine etc.
Cheers
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 11:12 am   #5
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Refinishing a cabinet is a big subject and not wishing to boast (suppose I am in a way though!) I have refinished many, many cabinets to a high standard. I'd need to write pages to get down all my thoughts. Here's some at random:

Re the decal, I doubt if the finest refinisher in the world could retain it in a seamless 'you wouldn't know it had been refinished' manner. You'd need to cut and scrape all around it - difficult in itself - and then re-lacquer to bring up the height alongside it and fill in/disguise any cut marks.

Original finishes were cellulose lacquer. Still available but not the easiest to apply.

Lately I've been using Wilko quick dry varnish. It goes on lovely like watered down cream (not sticky and 'pully' like polyurethanes), and self levels nicely. Apply it in thin to medium coats; not too thin and certainly not too thick. It dries very quickly, you can easily apply three or more coats in a day. It sands easily and is relatively non clogging of your sandpaper/sanding blocks.

In terms of colours, your set would have looked different when new; 'brighter' for one as old cellulose tends to yellow with age.

Do your best to remove old lacquer and sand the cabinet to a very high standard. Your new lacquer will only be as good as the ground work you have done.

I use plastic wood of different colours, and also Kwikwood (for big holes etc) to repair damaged corners and the like. I leave small surface dents alone. I use a variety of pukka artists' (expensive!) felt tipped pens in a variety of brown colours to disguise the repaired areas before lacquering.

In terms of applying colours, you have two choices. Wood stain (not varnish or lacquer), or lacquer/varnish that includes stain (it's coloured). The former can be oil or water based. When using the latter it can be difficult to get an even colour as application depths will inevitably vary with your brushing out strokes; it can end up looking patchy. I prefer to apply a pure stain to relevant areas first, then use clear lacquer afterwards. If after that you find that you still need stronger colour, then use coloured lacquer. Ignore the name of the wood colour on the tin, just aim for the colour you want.

Use a high quality, natural bristle brush that allows you to brush out without dragging the lacquer to become different depths in different areas, ie just smooth it out. Don't skimp on a brush. I use 1" or 1.5" for large areas and 1/2' for smaller ones.

I apply about four coats but it depends on how it has 'gone on', the surface of the wood etc. In terms of the last coat, I generally flat off using very fine, pre-used sandpaper, then cut/buff back up to the level of shine that you want. Glass-like finishes look unnatural to me on a vintage radio. I don't even like them on vintage hifi cabinets that I restore.

You can also buy spray cans of lacquer that work very well, but obviously works out expensive. I use a spray can holder/trigger that converts the can into a 'spray gun' for easier, more controlled use.
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 5:13 pm   #6
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Thank you.
I am now going to read and read again all your comments. I will then attempt to do one side of the cabinet and see how I get on, if you don’t mind I may be back to ask you some questions.
Cheers
John
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 7:00 pm   #7
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Not at all John, feel free. Another point, try to apply varnish/lacquer only to horizontal surfaces, it tends to run otherwise. So you probably will have to do a panel/face at a time. Use a tissue run along the upright unvarnished edge to remove any drips immediately afterwards.
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 10:51 pm   #8
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Steve, I will be trying your method for a more original finish soon on a Pye Cambridge International I have on my to do list. To answer your questions John, there isn't really much of a shine to it and it does darken the wood slightly. Like I said I just used what I had around at the time and hoped for the best, I'm happy with the results anyway. Like Steve said it is hard to scrape all around the logo but it is possible, mine isn't quite perfect but it's good enough and retains the originality which I feel is most important.

Cameron
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 6:57 am   #9
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Default Re: Bush AC34

I've seen numerous threads on here about repro water slide transfers. My knowledge on this subject is zero but I believe it is possible to make/print your own using a good image/photo of an original as a starting point. I suggest a search on here, also a Google search along the lines of 'make water slide transfers '. Someone may have already made Bush ones. Having a new transfer to apply will remove one big hurdle from the restoration process.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 9:41 am   #10
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
I've seen numerous threads on here about repro water slide transfers. My knowledge on this subject is zero but I believe it is possible to make/print your own using a good image/photo of an original as a starting point.
I do have the artwork for the Bush logo, for which I claim no credit - I think it may have been posted on the forum some time ago. Judging by my own Bush AC41, the transfer should be 1.5 inches square. I've printed off a strip of four on plain paper for now, and they look in keeping, with a good approximation to the 'gold' aspects, and don't look garishly 'new'.

If it helps anyone, I'd be happy to print them onto waterslide decal (transfer) paper and supply strips of four for £1.60 post free, or eight for £2.60. The reason I say four, is that for anyone who hasn't used them before, applying the transfers is an acquired skill and the chances are you'll probably mess up the first time, so it's always best to print several transfers. Until you become adept at applying them, as sure as anything, they'll wrinkle up and can't be straightened. The transfers will be on a strip of four, each with a white border around them, and will need to be cut right to the edges of the transfer so that no white is showing before application.

To apply the transfer, you put it in a saucer of warm water, prevent it from curling up using your fingers, then after 30 - 60 secs, gently see if it will slide between your finger and thumb. If so, leave it on the backing paper, then hold it in the position on the cabinet where you want to apply it, and slide the backing paper from beneath the transfer as you smooth it down. NEVER slide the transfer off the top of the backing paper or it will curl up. You can move it about a bit, being careful not to stretch it, then when you're happy with the position of it, smooth it down with a piece of kitchen roll to exclude air bubbles and water. Once set, after 24 hours or so they're durable and stick really well. You can if you wish apply a coat of clear acrylic varnish.

The topic of water slide transfers ('decals' as they're generally known), has been covered numerous times if anyone wishes to create their own. At post #4 at the thread below are some examples of ones that I've created, both on clear and white paper as appropriate. (The Bush ones would need to be printed ion white. You can buy decal paper for ink jet and laser printers, but I only have experience of ink jet. (The transfers when made, are waterproof, as of course they must be.

Hope that might help.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...lide+transfers

Good luck with the restoration.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 10:29 am   #11
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Thank you Cameron and Steve, David I would like a strip of four please, I will be in touch later.
Cheers
John
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 12:22 pm   #12
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Default Re: Bush AC34

David pm sent.
Cheers
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 12:25 pm   #13
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Another tip, when 'brushing out' varnish, do it towards edges, not away from them. Otherwise you'll end up with edges that have less varnish on them than the main surface. Then wipe up any drips over the edge with a tissue in a horizontal motion. I generally apply the varnish across the grain of the wood, then as soon as possible brush out in line with the grain, using minimal pressure, almost letting the weight of the brush do the brushing out. That seems to achieve a more even coverage with less missed spots.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 12:38 pm   #14
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Thanks, I’m in the process of looking for some varnish, I will possibly get it on Saturday.
After I have applied the first coat, how more coats should I apply?
Also do I then polish it with, for example beeswax or any furniture polish?
I just remembered that when I was in my teens I made a record player and put varnish on the cabinet, I was disappointed with the end result, it had lot of “bubbles” in it, what did I do wrong?
Cheers
John
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 4:06 pm   #15
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Without wishing to throw a spanner in the works, I've not had much success with water-based varnishes, which most seem to be these days due to the commitment to reduce high 'VOCs' (Volatile Organic Compounds). Hence, when I buy any form of varnish or lacquer for brush application, the first thing I look for is the brush cleaning instructions. If it says 'wash brushes in warm soapy water' I steer well clear, and look for something which on the can, says 'High VOCs' or 'clean brushes with white spirit'.

That said, if someone has used a varnish and achieved good results on radio cabinets that they can recommend, that takes the mystery out of the equation.

For radio cabinets, I've tended to use either Danish oil, or clear gloss aerosol lacquer.

Danish oil needs no skill to apply using a lint free cloth and gives a nice sheen - not too high a gloss. It doesn't just 'dry' - it goes through a chemical change and hardens. additional coats can be applied as desired after say 24 hours at room temperature. I've attached a pic of a Ferranti set which was a skip find, that I stripped and applied Danish oil to, which came up very nicely.

Alternatively, I've used both acrylic clear gloss lacquer, used extensively by woodturners these days. Being water-based, it's less hazardous. I can recommend GTPRO 'Redline Pro Wet Look Clear Lacquer', which is acrylic and is actually intended as the lacquer top coat of alloy wheel paint, designed to be weatherproof and scratchproof. It typically costs £6.99 for a 400ml aerosol plus post.

Two other brands of lacquer which are well thought of are U-Pol Clearcoat' power cans and 'Tetroysl Trade Spray' clear lacquer. The downside is that they're more akin to nitro-cellulose so can be hazardous if sensible precautions aren't taken.

U-Pol contains:

Acetone (CAS-No.) 67-64-1 5 - 23 Flam. Liq. 2, H225
ethyl methyl ketone
4-methylpentan-2-one, isobutyl methyl ketone
Ethylbenzene

the U-Pol Safety Datasheet is here:

http://www.u-pol.com/files/12719/up0804-SDS-EN

Typically, it costs £12.99 for two 500ml cans post free.

Tetrosyl Trade Spray contains acetone, butyl acetate and iso-butanol, so likewise, there are safety considerations.

The Datasheet is here:

https://www.tetconnect.com/images/st...ATS019_SDS.pdf

To quote the maker's blurb:

The trade spray series from Tetrosyl is the professional solution to topcoat finishing. Ideal for use on rigid plastics, wheels and wheel trims, and compatible with cellulose finish paint. The adjustable spray nozzle provides a ‘spray gun’ finish straight from an aerosol and the quick drying formula ensures a smooth and quality finish.

Unquote.

Radio cabinets will have originally been sprayed with nitrocellulose. The only one I've re-sprayed of late was a Unitra Figaro Special which was rather like the high gloss Grundigs etc. It was the worse for wear, but didn't need to be totally stripped. I tested Tetrosyl on an inconspicuous part to check compatibility, and it was fine, so I applied several coats, flatting it down between coats till I was happy with it.

I've attached a pic of the Figaro.

Not wishing to take the thread off topic into irrelevancies, and for no other reason than to illustrate the finish attained using Tetrosyl Trade Spray clear lacquer, I've attach a couple of pics of a not very exciting little bowl I turned (from a scrap of scavenged Iroko when Hull dock gates were being repaired) and finished with Tetrosyl spray.

One last point or stripping cabinets, do bear in mind that the veneer will at best be 1mm thick - most likely 0.6mm. Hence, it's desperately easy - especially on the top front curved edge of Bush and other sets, to sand right through to the underlying timber. Much better to use a cabinet scraper (NOT a paintscraper). About the coarsest paper I'd use on veneer is 220g, sparingly, and always with the grain.

Hope that's of interest.

Every good wish with the restoration John.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 4:45 pm   #16
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Without sounding a bit “thick” do you mean use Danish Oil instead of Varnish?
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 5:19 pm   #17
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Yes - Danish oil is a form of varnish.

As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't simply 'dry' it goes through a chemical change and 'cures' which in a warm room might take a few hours, or perhaps overnight. (You can tell by rubbing your finger on it. If it's cured, no oil will come off on your finger). There's no set formula for it - it differs from maker to maker, but it's typically a mixture of polymerised linseed oil, and tung oil (which is also from pressed seeds).

It's often used for kitchen utensils and wooden worktops as it's food safe.

You can read more about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_oil

It's tended to be popular with radio restorers due to the finish obtained, and the ease of application. One of it's benefits is that most people aren't too keen on high gloss finishes, and Danish oil dries to a nice sheen. It's has been covered in many threads on the forum (including 'success stories') over the years, such as this one:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ght=Danish+Oil

It's not expensive and is widely available from the likes of Screwfix.

Hope that helps.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 5:50 pm   #18
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Quote:
Originally Posted by John10b View Post
Thanks, I’m in the process of looking for some varnish, I will possibly get it on Saturday.
After I have applied the first coat, how more coats should I apply?
Also do I then polish it with, for example beeswax or any furniture polish?
I just remembered that when I was in my teens I made a record player and put varnish on the cabinet, I was disappointed with the end result, it had lot of “bubbles” in it, what did I do wrong?
Cheers
John
Firstly, being so pleased with the results, I have more or less stabilised on using Wilko Quick Dry varnish now, so my comments are relevant to that product. Knowing how different varnishes vary wildy in how they 'go on', sand, etc etc, then my comments do not, by and large apply to different types. Polyurethanes for example require a totally different approach, and to me, are awkward to get good results from, I used them for years and was never very pleased with the results. They go on sticky, they pull when brushing out, they take ages to dry and can often show brush marks, clog when sanded, etc etc. I have no affiliation with Wilko by the way! I just love the product. Don't shake the tin to mix it before use, stir it. You can easily do three coats in one day (4 hours between coats) using it. So, two days, and you can have a finished cabinet!

Like I said in my random notes above, I apply four coats with a light rub down between each using a very fine sanding block of the sponge rubber type. I finish off with another light sanding with - emphasis here again - very fine sandpaper again followed by a rub down with 0000 grade wire wool. That will give you a matt finish, but a very 'flat' one. If you don't like matt, then use cutting paste to bring it up to the level of shine that you desire. Alternatively if you're feeling brave and are after a glossy look (not my preference personally) then try to get your final coat to go on 'perfectly'. That is not easy, you may end up with a few ripples, blemishes and the like, and it's why generally I don't do it, preferring to bring back the required shine with some hard work with cutting paste.

I wouldn't worry too much about polishing it afterwards, but on that score, waxes and 'natural' products may sound inviting, but they serve little or no purpose as the wood they are intended (advertised!) to nourish is encased in the varnish; the polish does reach wood. On the very rare occasions that I polish a finished cabinet I use a silicon based product of the Mr Sheen type that frankly are perfect for the job.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 6:42 pm   #19
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Thank you both for your advice and guidance, I will be trying out both methods with interest. I will let you know how I get on.
Cheers
John
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 10:30 am   #20
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Default Re: Bush AC34

Just a small update, I received the Bush Logo transfers from David and did a test on a spare piece of plywood.
The result was first class, many thanks to David.
I will now be able to rub out the original logo, and replace with new transfer.
Cheers
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