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Old 9th Jun 2020, 7:14 pm   #1
gramophone1
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Default Phono Stage Recommendations

Hi, I am looking to purchase a new phono stage for my Audio Technica turntable.

I am interested in any recommendations you might have.

My budget is between £50 and £100. I am not an audiophile, I just want something that sounds clean, and neutral. There is so many choices, I don't know where to start.

Any thoughts, recommendations greatly appreciated.

Thank you . . . .
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 9:48 pm   #2
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

Are you looking for new or used? I bought a used first generation Rega Fono a couple of years back and that was within your budget (later versions cost moreJ. i find the Rega to be detailed and smooth sounding. It was better than the Project that I also tried, which sounded more vibrant but rougher. This was with a Linn Basik and K9. There is plenty of choice out there, so this is just my opinion on a couple of options.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 10:03 pm   #3
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

I did put the Project phonobox design into LTSpice and discovered it is about as close to RIAA as you can get. May not be a high-end brand name but does what it is supposed to do for a reasonable price and can be bought 2nd hand.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 10:05 pm   #4
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

I should add the Rega was moving magnet (MM) only, whilst the project was switchable MM or MC. Probably you have a MM cartridge, but worth mentioning anyway.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 10:10 pm   #5
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

If you have basic electronic skills, good RIAA preamps are cheap and easy to build. Even if you've never built anything before, they make good first projects. See http://phonoclone.com/diy-pho5.html. (The rather fancy PSU can be replaced by a couple of PP3s from Poundland.)
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 10:16 pm   #6
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

Another point to consider with regards to 'neutrality' if that is the same as frequency response, is that the frequency response of a MM cartridge will depend on the overall capacitive loading of the cable and stage. So, it is perhaps not possible to say how flat the response will be without knowledge of the cartridge, cable and input capacitance of the stage.

For what its worth, The Linn K9 was a modified AT cartridge and I now use an AT VM95ML and still find the Rega suits my taste. I guess your AT turntable will be using an AT cartridge as well.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 10:20 pm   #7
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

Hi Mark,

Yes, I am looking to purchase new.

My Audio Technica Turntable has a built in phono stage, but it is not brilliant.

I have seen the project phono box e, and the rega advertised on line. Both seem well reviewed.

Any further recommendations most welcome
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 10:27 pm   #8
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

It is an Audio Technica AT-VM95E cartridge. It is MM only. The good thing with that cartridge is you can upgrade to a better stylus. But I am not concerned about that for now.

Last edited by gramophone1; 9th Jun 2020 at 10:32 pm.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 10:31 pm   #9
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

Thanks Paul for the link.

I personally have never built any electrical devices before.
But with plenty of time on my hands, it is something to consider.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 11:07 pm   #10
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

I use a Behringer PP400 with an Audio Technica At95e. It sounds good to my ears.

I think I bought mine for £25.00 on Amazon.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 11:20 pm   #11
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

The Behringer PP400 looks good to me. Certainly some good reviews.

Any further suggestions certainly welcome,
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 11:37 pm   #12
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramophone1 View Post
Hi Mark,

Yes, I am looking to purchase new.

My Audio Technica Turntable has a built in phono stage, but it is not brilliant.

I have seen the project phono box e, and the rega advertised on line. Both seem well reviewed.

Any further recommendations most welcome
Might save a lot of $$$ but maybe just rebuild the inbuilt phono stage. Especially if its full of those horrible 1uF and 2.2 uF electrolytic capacitors. They cost pennies, even for upmarket types, are (fairly) easy to change and can make a huge difference to the sound.

Just a thought
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 4:14 am   #13
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

As Paul said earlier, it's been known for a long time how to make a good RIAA stage for a moving magnet cartridge, so to make one which is rough sounding would take care and dedication, but then there's no shortage of cases of ships spoiled to save a ha'porth worth of tar.

The overall response of a cartridge does depend on the load imposed on it, and the RIAA frequency response shaping then has to work on that. So it is important to set the load (resistive and capacitive values) to suit the manufacturer's recommendation for a cartridge.

If a simulation was done with a simple voltage source and not some sort of cartridge simulation, then it will accurately represent the RIAA shape of the stage, leaving loading effects as a separate entity.

With most RIAA stages, the loading components are clearly separated from the rest of the circuit, and can be changed to suit cartridges. One preamp I have (Revox) has front panel switches to change cartridge loading.

As Joe says, the manufacturer of the built-in RIAA stage may have cut corners on component quality. In the audio world you can't safely assume things were designed competently. There are enough cases where someone decides on some novel approach just to be different and some work out OK, some are comedic.

Two good but simple RIAA stages have been published in Wireless World over the years. One was by Hugh Walker in the early seventies as part of an article on a stereo mixer. It uses three transistors and will run off a few PP3s. Late in the seventies was one by Peter Baxandall (Yes, that Baxandall) unsing an NE5534 or NE5532 opamp.

There has been a recent thread on here about just how good the NE5534/NE5532 are for RIAA stages. There is the Baxandall design in my home-made preamp, I've found it fine.

So an RIAA stage would not be a bad thing as a first ever constructional project. It could go in the turntable plinth in place of the original one.

You can also play around with loading components to meet the cartridge specs, or just to see if you prefer the effects of something different.

Maybe there are some particularly grotty component choices in the existing circuit, and some direct substitutions could yield greater happiness. There are some nasty electrolytic capacitors out there and they can degrade with time. Cheap carbon composition resistors are a lot noisier than they need be. I've measured as much as 20dB more noise than a metal film type. 20dB is ten times the noise voltage, 100 times the noise power. Sounds ludicrous? Well, that's the worst I came across, but in general there is enough to notice, and they are a few pence cheaper. Oddly, some audio press/website etc promote carbon resistors saying they're more musical or something. Other people can't hear anything wrong with metal film, and the noise is objectively measurable. It is real, not imaginary.

The danger in audio electronics is in separating real effects and real engineering from fashion.

David
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 6:34 am   #14
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

A good kit that does both MM and MC is Douglas Self's design from here

http://www.signaltransfer.freeuk.com/RIAAunbal.htm . The board and kit of bits is £152, and the case for it is £29.50 http://www.signaltransfer.freeuk.com/cases.htm

That uses a 5534 in the MM stage, and a Self design buffer MC stage that feeds into the MM RIAA. There is also a third order rumble filter based on 5532's.

FWIW I built the balanced version a few years ago, and have used it with both MC (Denon DL103) and currently MM (Shure V15IV with JICO stylus). It has worked superbly for both those.

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Old 10th Jun 2020, 6:51 am   #15
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

Incidentally, avoid the ultra-cheapo Chinese ones. I bought one for £14 just to see what was in it. For that money it even came with a wall wart supply! It was the good old 1960's/early 70's three transistor circuit, which was OK back then (I come from back then, and it was the only show in town at that stage).

By the late 70's I built one based on discrete op-amps, because although chip op-amps were around, they weren't up to the job (741 and 748).

For quite a long time I used the quite superb Quad 34 preamp, which had an excellent phono stage. There are two pluggable versions - one for MM and one for MC. I'm actually rather sad that I sold that. They sell for (it would appear) between £100 and £200 - and that is for a complete preamp.

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Old 10th Jun 2020, 9:03 am   #16
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramophone1 View Post
Hi Mark,

Yes, I am looking to purchase new.

My Audio Technica Turntable has a built in phono stage, but it is not brilliant.

I have seen the project phono box e, and the rega advertised on line. Both seem well reviewed.

Any further recommendations most welcome
I have an AudioTechnica and yes the inbuilt preamp is poor. I use an old NAD PP-1 preamp and find it very good. Should be some on ebay etc
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 10:18 am   #17
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

Just out of interest, which Audio Technica Turntable do you have.

The reviews of the cartridge, as usual, are full of "how good pink floyd ... sounds" crap but I can't find frequency response charts which tell all.

Once the turntable model is known, a look at the schematic will soon tell you if you're going to improve the listening experience or not.

Chris
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 10:35 am   #18
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

As advised above, do be wary of ultra-cheap pre-amps in the £20-00 to £30-00 price band. Also those very exotic looking, but highly dubious, "valve" pre-amps for c.£50-00. Yes, there are two valves in them, but all they do is glow. They are not fully functioning 6992s!
There's not much to go wrong with used Pre-Amps as sold on auction sites. Personally I'd buy either the entry level NAD or Project units brand new at c. £55-00. These will be just fine with mid-range AT decks.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 11:28 am   #19
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

For many years I ran my Technics SL-QL1 Direct Drive Turntable with a Cambridge Audio Phono Stage.

The current incarnation is available from Richer Sounds but slightly outside your budget - soemthing to consider though:-

https://www.richersounds.com/cambrid...-graphite.html
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 11:45 am   #20
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Default Re: Phono Stage Recommendations

To give the OP an impression of AT designed RIAA MM preamps, attached is the AT- PEQ3.

Chris
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File Type: pdf AT-PEQ3.pdf (139.9 KB, 82 views)
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