AW43-88 - Manufacturers? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

staticmind · 25th Jun 2021, 10:02 am

Hi,

I know that many of the AW43-88 CRTs were manufactured by Philips in Aachen, branded as both Philips and Valvo and also at Mullard sites in the UK.
I have recently found a Siemens AW43-88 (in Germany) and was wondering if this is actually just a rebranded Valvo/Philips CRT from Aachen.

Does anyone know about Siemens and their ventures into CRT manufacturing? What manufacturers of the AW43-88 did exist?

FERNSEH · 25th Jun 2021, 10:08 am

It's possible that in the UK the STC company Brimar also made the AW43-88 and recoded it as the C17AA.

DFWB.

Maarten · 25th Jun 2021, 10:51 am

The Siemens is very likely to be a rebranded Philips/Valvo tube. The factory can be identified from the small print on the end of the pip protector. Philips picture tubes use a similar small print coding system as valves. On later types it's a somewhat larger print on the bell.

FERNSEH · 25th Jun 2021, 10:54 am

Link to the Obsolete TV Museum showing a Siemens black and white TV set equipped with a Fivre 24BM1 CRT.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LmsYMgHKe...0/IMG_8355.jpg

DFWB.

Heatercathodeshort · 25th Jun 2021, 11:48 am

The UK made Mullard AW43-88 series and the slightly later AW47-91, unlike the Mazda near equivalents were without doubt the most reliable tubes ever manufactured.
Even today the many examples that have survived in vintage receivers are still 100%.

I have no experience of others manufactured in Europe. As David has mentioned, Brimar manufactured the C17-AA, it's version of the AW43-88. It is an excellent tube but I have replaced a few due to low emission and it is a much rarer tube than the Mullard. John.

Maarten · 25th Jun 2021, 1:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH

Link to the Obsolete TV Museum showing a Siemens black and white TV set equipped with a Fivre 24BM1 CRT.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LmsYMgHKe...0/IMG_8355.jpg

That's very likely an Italian made Siemens set so the tube would have been sourced locally anyway.

I don't think Siemens made too much of their sets themselves, they were quite good at buying in, even when most major manufacturers still had their own operations. Siemens Germany did use the old Nora factory for some time, though. They also owned a valve factory, but it might never have produced picture tubes.

German Dalek · 25th Jun 2021, 1:46 pm

Siemens produced their own tubes or they were rebadged from Lorenz-production. Or Telefunken?
I don`t think that they were made by Philips, just because I had too much trouble
with Siemens/Telefunken CRTs, but not with Philips!

Oh, they (AW 43-88) were made in East-Germany, Poland and Russia, too.
The Teslas from Prague are not better! Lousy junk, often without aluminisation, and that in 1959 and upwards.

Btw., I have an australian made Philips CRT, but has air, so its free for local pick-up.

Happy weekend,
German Dalek

staticmind · 25th Jun 2021, 6:01 pm

Thank you for all of the replies, most definitely more information than I had expected.

David, John, very interesting on the Brimar C17AA. I found some pictures of it and data sheet, and it indeed looks to be the same specifications. It seems to be quite rare to see for sale second-hand, though.

Maarten, I have many Siemens and Lorenz/SEL/ITT branded replacement tubes, and always wondered if Siemens actually made any of the tubes by themselves. Would that be their factory they had (have?) in Berlin?

German Dalek, I've read that before elsewhere, that the Telefunken picture tubes didn't have a very long life compared to Philips, but I don't know if that applies to color or B/W as well. Of course, it would also depend on model.
Interesting about the Teslas too - have never seen one. They probably all suffered from ion burn, then. The Valvo AW43-88 I have now produces an ok picture, but it is "dirty" and quite a bit more green in the middle, a patch of around 15 cm in diameter. Could that be caused by weak aluminisation so the phosphor is slightly damaged?

I'm going to buy the Siemens AW43-88. The thing with the Siemens AW43-88 is that it is new old stock and would otherwise have been thrown out, but if it was known to be something to avoid, I would not bother. My best suggestion on shipping this to me from Southern Germany would be in a thick cardbox box, and the CRT wrapped in lots of transit blankets (the grey type) so that it cannot move around in the box. Any further or better suggestions?

Thanks, Troels

Maarten · 25th Jun 2021, 7:02 pm

Make sure to have the sender protect the neck against sudden forces from the direction of the nearest outer wall of the box, or else you may find the vacuum was lost in transit somewhere.

@German Dalek: I know for sure that Philips Aachen made at least one AW43-xx for Siemens as I have seen one in a set.

Heatercathodeshort · 25th Jun 2021, 8:08 pm

The Mazda near equivalent is the CME1703. It has a 12.6V .3A heater so OK in series heater chain. First class screen but a gun that went low emission after approximately 3-4 years. Philips/Mullard were very consistent producing an excellent range of tubes but to be fair they had a problem with the heater assembly in the 70/90 degree tubes. A fair number developed a partially shorted heater after around five years use, a fault that never occurred with the AW43-88. John.

FERNSEH · 25th Jun 2021, 9:03 pm

In 1960 Mullard introduced the short neck version of the AW43-88.
The new tube was designated as AW43-89 and was 32mm shorter than the AW43-88. Brimar recoded the tube as C17AF.
This tube allowed manufactures to realise a truly slim TV receiver. <12" deep.

DFWB.

Heatercathodeshort · 28th Jun 2021, 5:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH

Link to the Obsolete TV Museum showing a Siemens black and white TV set equipped with a Fivre 24BM1 CRT.

Philips scan coils in that Siemens David. It also has the feel of an ITT VC1-52. J.

FERNSEH · 28th Jun 2021, 8:18 pm

Hi John,
hand wired TV like a VC1-5 but it doesn't have a look of an ITT.
I'm sure mono TV Philips scan coils were used by many other manufactures. The Pye 368 did so but by 1968 the company was owned by Philips.
Attachment shows the April 1960 German periodical Funkschau which features an article about the new short neck AW43-89 CRT and it's application in compact TV receivers.

DFWB.

Maarten · 30th Jun 2021, 12:27 pm

As far as I know, scan coils weren't usually part of the picture tube in that era, often being bought in separately and mounted in the set factory.

Given the nature of Italian electronics manufacture, it would be hard to pin a certain foreign design to a set, though there would have been manufacturers producing under license. Deflection yokes could also have been produced under license.

staticmind · 21st Jul 2021, 1:40 pm

Just to update - the Siemens CRT arrived, with vacuum intact.
The CRT gun assembly makes me think Philips/Valvo, but there's no no code on the connector itself, only "2b" or "26" and "782" with a square, circle and "G" under it. Anyone dare to make a guess on how to decipher this? Based on the condition it looks brand new, although the cathode housing looks a little brown.

FERNSEH · 21st Jul 2021, 3:14 pm

The code D0G indicates the tube was made July 1960 by Valvo in Germany. Doubt if there was any production of this tube in 1970.

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Phili...CodeListAB.pdf

DFWB.

staticmind · 21st Jul 2021, 3:58 pm

Thank you David for clearing this up. The "square" and "circle" had me confused. CRT has now been packed down safely once again and put into storage.

Maarten · 21st Jul 2021, 7:05 pm

@Fernseh: The letter D was only used for receiving tubes. This is definitely a square, which means Valvo Aachen. I agree it was made there in july 1960.

782 means the second revision of tube code 78, which seems plausible. I previously spotted a 785 H1H, which would most likely be from their Eindhoven factory, made in august 1961.

25th Jun 2021, 10:02 am	#1
staticmind Tetrode Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 97	AW43-88 - Manufacturers? Hi, I know that many of the AW43-88 CRTs were manufactured by Philips in Aachen, branded as both Philips and Valvo and also at Mullard sites in the UK. I have recently found a Siemens AW43-88 (in Germany) and was wondering if this is actually just a rebranded Valvo/Philips CRT from Aachen. Does anyone know about Siemens and their ventures into CRT manufacturing? What manufacturers of the AW43-88 did exist?

25th Jun 2021, 10:08 am	#2
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? It's possible that in the UK the STC company Brimar also made the AW43-88 and recoded it as the C17AA. DFWB.

25th Jun 2021, 10:51 am	#3
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,199	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? The Siemens is very likely to be a rebranded Philips/Valvo tube. The factory can be identified from the small print on the end of the pip protector. Philips picture tubes use a similar small print coding system as valves. On later types it's a somewhat larger print on the bell.

25th Jun 2021, 10:54 am	#4
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? Link to the Obsolete TV Museum showing a Siemens black and white TV set equipped with a Fivre 24BM1 CRT. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LmsYMgHKe...0/IMG_8355.jpg DFWB.

25th Jun 2021, 11:48 am	#5
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? The UK made Mullard AW43-88 series and the slightly later AW47-91, unlike the Mazda near equivalents were without doubt the most reliable tubes ever manufactured. Even today the many examples that have survived in vintage receivers are still 100%. I have no experience of others manufactured in Europe. As David has mentioned, Brimar manufactured the C17-AA, it's version of the AW43-88. It is an excellent tube but I have replaced a few due to low emission and it is a much rarer tube than the Mullard. John.

25th Jun 2021, 1:46 pm	#7
German Dalek Hexode Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany. Posts: 368	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? Siemens produced their own tubes or they were rebadged from Lorenz-production. Or Telefunken? I don`t think that they were made by Philips, just because I had too much trouble with Siemens/Telefunken CRTs, but not with Philips! Oh, they (AW 43-88) were made in East-Germany, Poland and Russia, too. The Teslas from Prague are not better! Lousy junk, often without aluminisation, and that in 1959 and upwards. Btw., I have an australian made Philips CRT, but has air, so its free for local pick-up. Happy weekend, German Dalek __________________ And now something completly different: MARC BOLAN, he was/is the real king of Pop Music!

25th Jun 2021, 6:01 pm	#8
staticmind Tetrode Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 97	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? Thank you for all of the replies, most definitely more information than I had expected. David, John, very interesting on the Brimar C17AA. I found some pictures of it and data sheet, and it indeed looks to be the same specifications. It seems to be quite rare to see for sale second-hand, though. Maarten, I have many Siemens and Lorenz/SEL/ITT branded replacement tubes, and always wondered if Siemens actually made any of the tubes by themselves. Would that be their factory they had (have?) in Berlin? German Dalek, I've read that before elsewhere, that the Telefunken picture tubes didn't have a very long life compared to Philips, but I don't know if that applies to color or B/W as well. Of course, it would also depend on model. Interesting about the Teslas too - have never seen one. They probably all suffered from ion burn, then. The Valvo AW43-88 I have now produces an ok picture, but it is "dirty" and quite a bit more green in the middle, a patch of around 15 cm in diameter. Could that be caused by weak aluminisation so the phosphor is slightly damaged? I'm going to buy the Siemens AW43-88. The thing with the Siemens AW43-88 is that it is new old stock and would otherwise have been thrown out, but if it was known to be something to avoid, I would not bother. My best suggestion on shipping this to me from Southern Germany would be in a thick cardbox box, and the CRT wrapped in lots of transit blankets (the grey type) so that it cannot move around in the box. Any further or better suggestions? Thanks, Troels

25th Jun 2021, 7:02 pm	#9
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,199	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? Make sure to have the sender protect the neck against sudden forces from the direction of the nearest outer wall of the box, or else you may find the vacuum was lost in transit somewhere. @German Dalek: I know for sure that Philips Aachen made at least one AW43-xx for Siemens as I have seen one in a set.

25th Jun 2021, 8:08 pm	#10
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? The Mazda near equivalent is the CME1703. It has a 12.6V .3A heater so OK in series heater chain. First class screen but a gun that went low emission after approximately 3-4 years. Philips/Mullard were very consistent producing an excellent range of tubes but to be fair they had a problem with the heater assembly in the 70/90 degree tubes. A fair number developed a partially shorted heater after around five years use, a fault that never occurred with the AW43-88. John.

25th Jun 2021, 9:03 pm	#11
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? In 1960 Mullard introduced the short neck version of the AW43-88. The new tube was designated as AW43-89 and was 32mm shorter than the AW43-88. Brimar recoded the tube as C17AF. This tube allowed manufactures to realise a truly slim TV receiver. <12" deep. DFWB.

28th Jun 2021, 8:18 pm	#13
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? Hi John, hand wired TV like a VC1-5 but it doesn't have a look of an ITT. I'm sure mono TV Philips scan coils were used by many other manufactures. The Pye 368 did so but by 1968 the company was owned by Philips. Attachment shows the April 1960 German periodical Funkschau which features an article about the new short neck AW43-89 CRT and it's application in compact TV receivers. DFWB. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by FERNSEH; 28th Jun 2021 at 8:23 pm.

30th Jun 2021, 12:27 pm	#14
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,199	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? As far as I know, scan coils weren't usually part of the picture tube in that era, often being bought in separately and mounted in the set factory. Given the nature of Italian electronics manufacture, it would be hard to pin a certain foreign design to a set, though there would have been manufacturers producing under license. Deflection yokes could also have been produced under license.

21st Jul 2021, 1:40 pm	#15
staticmind Tetrode Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 97	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? Just to update - the Siemens CRT arrived, with vacuum intact. The CRT gun assembly makes me think Philips/Valvo, but there's no no code on the connector itself, only "2b" or "26" and "782" with a square, circle and "G" under it. Anyone dare to make a guess on how to decipher this? Based on the condition it looks brand new, although the cathode housing looks a little brown. Attached Thumbnails

21st Jul 2021, 3:14 pm	#16
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? The code D0G indicates the tube was made July 1960 by Valvo in Germany. Doubt if there was any production of this tube in 1970. https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Phili...CodeListAB.pdf DFWB.

21st Jul 2021, 3:58 pm	#17
staticmind Tetrode Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 97	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? Thank you David for clearing this up. The "square" and "circle" had me confused. CRT has now been packed down safely once again and put into storage.

21st Jul 2021, 7:05 pm	#18
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,199	Re: AW43-88 - Manufacturers? @Fernseh: The letter D was only used for receiving tubes. This is definitely a square, which means Valvo Aachen. I agree it was made there in july 1960. 782 means the second revision of tube code 78, which seems plausible. I previously spotted a 785 H1H, which would most likely be from their Eindhoven factory, made in august 1961.