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Old 7th Mar 2021, 11:59 pm   #1
slidertogrid
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Default Worst mains lead yet!

I decided today to have a look at a Bush radio I was given a while back. I was in the garage when it arrived and a mate called round with it in the back of his car. He asked if I wanted it as he was going to bin it if not.
He plonked it on a shelf in the garage and there it has stayed until a couple of days ago. I had only briefly looked at the front so when I brought it indoors was the first time I saw the mains lead...
It is the thinnest bit of stiff old bell wire I have ever seen! Why someone had fitted that I just don't know!
It has been replaced with a suitable length of wire. I have seen some ropey mains leads in my time but this one takes the prize!
Rich.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 12:11 am   #2
emeritus
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

It looks like a type of mains lead that was common in the 1950's. Woolworths used to sell it. Single insulated flex like that was I think prohibited when the regulations changed in the 1970's.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 12:17 am   #3
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

I've got to admit

I still use a Dansette with this mains lead, and regularly. It's still slack and flexible, and with no sign of distress so never thought to change it and I've never had a problem with it in the several years I've had and used it. Were I to sell or give the player away, then I'd probably change it.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 12:20 am   #4
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

I acquired a hank of that some time ago, sort of goldish yellow translucent stuff, definitely sold for table lamps/radios etc. These days I use it for connecting extension speakers (vintage ones of course!).
Electrical shops were still selling twisted singles like that for mains use until the late 70's, at least around here.
I've seen worse on chinese stuff that's been imported away from the proper channels.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 1:36 am   #5
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

I recall a lot of that transparent pale amber stuff being around in the past as table light flex, it did have a tendency to darken/go opaque and crumbly brittle sometimes, probably hastened by heat/sunlight but otherwise often OK for years. It does have a certain period charm but I can understand single insulated flex generally being deprecated for mains use.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 1:53 am   #6
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

I agree, this stuff was sold in Woolworths amongst other places, and was presumably intended for use with table lamps, though I don't remember any instructions to that effect. While it would be unacceptable now, I don't think it's hugely dangerous, and I've certainly seen much worse on old electrical appliances - cable twisted together and covered with 'insulating tape', etc.

As Kevin says, it makes good speaker cable, though I don't think the audiophools would approve.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 1:56 am   #7
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMurdo View Post
I acquired a hank of that some time ago, sort of goldish yellow translucent stuff, definitely sold for table lamps/radios etc. These days I use it for connecting extension speakers (vintage ones of course!).
Electrical shops were still selling twisted singles like that for mains use until the late 70's, at least around here.
I've seen worse on chinese stuff that's been imported away from the proper channels.
It's surprising that the Chinese extension leads sold here at the dollar stores are really made quite well, with the proper gauge conductors, 16AWG intended to carry 11 amps. Molded plug and connector, 6 foot long.
A lot of old radio restorers are buying them for replacement use.
Dave, USradcoll1
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 3:05 am   #8
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

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Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
It looks like a type of mains lead that was common in the 1950's. Woolworths used to sell it. Single insulated flex like that was I think prohibited when the regulations changed in the 1970's.
You can still buy series-string mains fairy lights with twisted flex. As you say, it has to have two layers of insulation these days, even then it's only marginally thicker than the old stuff.

I recently salvaged some from a faulty string I chucked out last year, and used it on a Metamec marble clock as it looked original.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 4:01 am   #9
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
....It is the thinnest bit of stiff old bell wire I have ever seen!...
Rich.
I always thought bell wire was/is single stranded figure of eight stuff, so made that a little tack or nail could be knocked in to the 'thin bit' in the middle for fixing the wire on it's way from the bell push via the power supply if necessary and on to the sounder.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

Steve.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 9:19 am   #10
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

I have had a few sets that have been fitted with this type of wire, usually it was to extend the original lead.

The worst one I came across was a 30's set with a cloth covered rubber lead. it was rock hard & very crunchy & crumbled to dust when flexed.

Not sure what model you have, but the original Bush mains lead would have been double insulated brown PVC with the usual black & red wires.


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Old 8th Mar 2021, 11:24 am   #11
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

I wonder why the original lead was replaced with this though! It wasn't a bodged on add on bit. It went to the switch threaded through the original grip which because the flex is so thin wasn't gripping it at all. This wire is much thinner than the usual twisted flex found on table lamps and fairy lights though and as stiff as solid wire, it can be bent to shape and stays that way!
I have replaced it with a period bit of flex like the original would have been (red and black).
I won't be selling the radio so I don't see the old colours being an issue. I have replaced a few caps and given it a clean inside and lubed the tuner indicator that was tight. I now have a radio for my garage (used on a plug in RCD!)
It should be ok in the garage as I have a much cherished classic car so it has a central heating radiator in there and the Bush is on a shelf above it.
The old bit of wire has been saved from the bin it will be used to tie runner beans in the garden! Should be safe enough for that!
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 12:41 pm   #12
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

Which Bush radio is it? The picture's not very helpful with the details of how the flex enters the chassis- it looks like there may perhaps have been a two pin mains inlet originally in which case a lost original cable may explain the bodgery.

WRT bell wire, I too would have expected solid cores rather than stranded. Their stiffness would help to make a neat job of the bell wire runs, a bit like a miniature version of T&E clipped direct. Is the stiffness in the core or the tired insulation?
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 1:20 pm   #13
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

Quote:
Which Bush radio is it?
Looks like an AC11 to me.


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Old 8th Mar 2021, 4:30 pm   #14
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

Yep spot on! A Bush AC11.
Strange in that despite having a mains transformer it has 'U series' valves in a series heater circuit... Did they do this to lower the current requirement on the heater circuit thereby being able to use a cheaper / smaller transformer?
I cannot take a picture of the set as I would have to get the car out of the garage to get far enough away from the radio to get a picture of it. It's raining at the moment so she stays tucked up in the garage!
Rich
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 5:42 pm   #15
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
Yep spot on! A Bush AC11.
Strange in that despite having a mains transformer it has 'U series' valves in a series heater circuit... Did they do this to lower the current requirement on the heater circuit thereby being able to use a cheaper / smaller transformer?
I cannot take a picture of the set as I would have to get the car out of the garage to get far enough away from the radio to get a picture of it. It's raining at the moment so she stays tucked up in the garage!
Rich
Not having a schematic handy, it's possibly an auto-transformer with a tap for the valve heaters, instead of dropper resistor.
BTW, are those valves, "Rimlock" type. I never seen one!
Dave, USradcoll1
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 6:14 pm   #16
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

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Originally Posted by usradcoll1 View Post
BTW, are those valves, "Rimlock" type. I never seen one!
You may not want to meet one. The base has a small glass pip and springy fingers formed in the skirt of the holder click the valve in place (the 'lock' bit)

But the glass pip is hollow and easily broken by the fingers when you extract a valve that's been in a while. They need a lot of care, and even then....

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Old 8th Mar 2021, 6:18 pm   #17
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

Safe as milk that, used properly with chassis grommets and a well connected modern plug.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 7:44 pm   #18
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Thumbs up Re: Worst mains lead yet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
Strange in that despite having a mains transformer it has 'U series' valves in a series heater circuit... Did they do this to lower the current requirement on the heater circuit thereby being able to use a cheaper/smaller transformer?Rich
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Originally Posted by usradcoll1 View Post
Not having a schematic handy, it's possibly an auto-transformer with a tap for the valve heaters, instead of dropper resistor.
I believe the AC11 uses a 'proper' double wound transformer, with taps on the secondary winding to supply the series valve heaters. Over on the excellent 'UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration' page, you can read a bit of discussion about why Bush may have done this (here and here). I favour Paul Stenning's argument that it allowed Bush to keep a narrower inventory of valve types.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 5:52 pm   #19
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Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Safe as milk that, used properly with chassis grommets and a well connected modern plug.
I wouldn't trust that flimsy flex with 240 volts, even with a plug fitted with a 1 amp fuse. Heaven help a child or a pet chewing on it.
As usual, just my opinion!
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 6:28 pm   #20
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Default Re: Worst mains lead yet!

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Originally Posted by usradcoll1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Safe as milk that, used properly with chassis grommets and a well connected modern plug.
I wouldn't trust that flimsy flex with 240 volts, even with a plug fitted with a 1 amp fuse. Heaven help a child or a pet chewing on it.
As usual, just my opinion!
Dave, usradcoll1
You (in the US) don't have to!

Used sensibly it's ok. I mean, the specified metal shrouding used to protect house wiring that's let into a plastered wall will not protect it from a masonry nail being driven in. But it's considered safe. Thicker mains cable is the same, a dog can easily bite through it.
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Last edited by stevehertz; 10th Mar 2021 at 6:50 pm.
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