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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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1st Aug 2021, 9:59 am | #1 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgewater, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 483
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Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
Hello everyone
Was having a discussion on another thread about tracking weight, but started this thread as the answers may be useful to people I'm interested to know what's the difference in tracking weight/pressure from record 1 compared to say record 6 (when 6 records are loaded on a record changer that uses a spring to set the tracking weight). I know this will be more by record number 6 but by what amount, is it tiny or quite significant. Would be good if a few people have an accurate scale and can check it out on say a BSR at record 1 and 6 so we get a good spread of results Look forward to your findings cheers Joe |
2nd Aug 2021, 7:39 am | #2 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgewater, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 483
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
OK I found a way to measure this with my own scales that I couldnt get as low as s single LP (I took the platter off, simple really, why didn't I think of it earlier?).
So on a early 60s Garrard 121 and an early 60s Philips AG1014 and a BSR 141 the difference in tracking weight from the bottom record to the 6th record was between 0.2 and 0.3g, so not very significant. Why did I need this info? Well my scales would be measuring weight about 8mm above where a single record would be, but now with my new found knowledge it seems safe to keep measuring as I was and just subtract 0.25g if I want to be really really accurate Hope this helps someone else out there! |
2nd Aug 2021, 8:40 am | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,869
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
That’s interesting, thanks.
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2nd Aug 2021, 8:47 am | #4 |
Nonode
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK.
Posts: 2,887
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
Yes interesting, what was the actual tracking weight?
John |
2nd Aug 2021, 8:51 am | #5 |
Moderator
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Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
I wouldn't expect much difference as most of the force generated by the spring is just trying to shorten the arm, which of course it cannot do. Only a small proportion of the force pushes the stylus onto the record.
Reminds me of those old physics problems. "Where's the best place to stand when pulling a gate open with a rope"?
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2nd Aug 2021, 9:14 am | #6 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgewater, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 483
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
The BSR was 3.82g at a single record height and 4g at the 6th record height. The phillips was half a ton and just under half a ton! (see my other 'ag1014' post today where I've got it down to just under 4g)
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2nd Aug 2021, 10:19 am | #7 |
Nonode
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK.
Posts: 2,887
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
Ta, will that make any noticeable difference? What do you mean by “Ton”? Have I misunderstood?
John |
2nd Aug 2021, 10:52 am | #8 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgewater, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 483
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
Quote:
As for the difference of 0.25g between record 1 and the 6th in a stack I don't think that is significant, but I couldnt find anywhere that had done the experiment, now it's done I don't think it's a concern when setting your tracking weight |
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2nd Aug 2021, 1:30 pm | #9 |
Nonode
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK.
Posts: 2,887
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
Ok thanks for putting me right.
John |
2nd Aug 2021, 1:50 pm | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,580
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
The question is, what is right for the arm and cartridge? Some of these old cartridges were designed to track at 10g. Getting it lighter is not necessarily better although it might seem so. More damage can be done by a stylus not sitting in the groove correctly because it's too light and of course certain records might be so heavily modulated as to throw the stylus out altogether....jumping. If the arm pivot is designed such that it will follow the groove well at 10g it might not at 4g and stick. It's a question of how 'free' the pivot is.
An old deck like the Philips will probably have been designed to track at 8 - 10g....perfectly OK for the sort of use it was expected to have.
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3rd Aug 2021, 6:59 am | #11 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgewater, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 483
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
Quote:
I don't mind heavy tracking but 8+g is a bit too much for my liking, but credit to Philips for their engineering as the arm, pivot and under deck mech is designed for 8+g but tracks without any skipping or audible issues as low as 4g when balanced, quite a bit beyond their design parameters I bet! |
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3rd Aug 2021, 8:21 am | #12 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,580
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
Lets have some pictures of the arm and new cartridge. I always wonder how people manage to keep these Philips decks working when there is nothing on the market that even resembles the old style Philips cartridge. I imagine that you have to dismantle the old cartridge and somehow shoehorn a new one into the shell?
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There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman..... |
3rd Aug 2021, 8:43 am | #13 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Stevenage, Herts. UK.
Posts: 1,519
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
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3rd Aug 2021, 9:17 am | #14 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgewater, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 483
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Re: Tracking weight issues when tonearm uses a spring
Quote:
Last edited by hayerjoe; 3rd Aug 2021 at 9:31 am. Reason: added a bit more detail |
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