My Bush TV43 restoration. - Page 4 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

audion_1908 · 26th Jan 2013, 3:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by audion_1908

Quote:

Originally Posted by G3JZF_John

Do you mean Pictures or Printed Circuits.
I will dig it out -not used it since I bought my Aurora. I built it on a piece of circuit board but not an actual printed circuit.
It would be a good idea to have a printed circuit because the components are cheap and you could have several for different channels.
Any volunteers to draw up the artwork?

John S

a printed circuit would be great but I was thinking of making a one off using veroboard with the tracks cut short or if I can find it I have somthing like veroboard but with no copper tracks.
but I would like some pictures of you modulator

If someone was making printed circuits for the modulator, I would be intrested in getting a few.

audion_1908 · 27th Jan 2013, 7:17 pm

it is a shame I can see the glue marks where lots of sticker wher in the tv and they are all gone!

It is a shame I can see the glue marks where lots of stickers were in the TV but they are all gone!

Heatercathodeshort · 27th Jan 2013, 7:36 pm

The crackle effect is a conductive graphite coating that forms the EHT smoothing. Don't worry about it's condition, it will have very little effect, if any on the final picture even if badly flaking. DON'T clean it! The tube is probably the original with some emission. Hold your breath. John.

audion_1908 · 27th Jan 2013, 8:29 pm

I will be testing my valve testers heater autotransfomer and if ok then an EF80 or two tonight.

Heatercathodeshort · 27th Jan 2013, 8:34 pm

You won't see snow on a TV43. As a very rough guide their should be a raster and a slight mush on sound. Operating the Band change switch and scratching the aerial socket with a screwdriver should produce flashes and crackles. J.

Freya · 27th Jan 2013, 8:35 pm

With the brightness up you should see a blank raster, no snow.

sorry John, crossed post.

Steve

audion_1908 · 27th Jan 2013, 8:37 pm

so I will have to get the rf modulater build and setup an old pc with MythTV to test it

So I will have to get the RF modulator built and setup an old PC with MythTV to test it.

HamishBoxer · 27th Jan 2013, 8:42 pm

Your DVM should show up any leakage in those caps, more so at that age of them.

audion_1908 · 27th Jan 2013, 8:56 pm

my dvm's are old £5 maplin specials, but I do have and old avo meter I am fixing, the DVM's I think would only put 9v max on the caps and the avo 1.5v max, I will still test a few

My DVM's are old £5 maplin specials, but I do have and old Avometer I am fixing. The DVM's I think would only put 9V max on the caps and the AVO 1.5V max. I will still test a few.

audion_1908 · 28th Jan 2013, 12:20 am

its not going to be quick to fix the avo meter sadly, and I am having truble working out where to put the missing pointer as the shaft is round and gows all the way round with no stop?

I have found a mix of vinegar and a bit of washing up liquid is good to balence the valves in for a day or two to help clean the corroded pins, finishing with cotton wool buds and contact cleaner!

It's not going to be quick to fix the Avometer sadly and I am having trouble working out where to put the missing pointer as the shaft is round and goes all the way round with no stop.

I have found a mix of vinegar and a bit of washing-up liquid is good to balance the valves in for a day or two to help clean the corroded pins, finishing with cotton wool buds and contact cleaner!

audion_1908 · 31st Jan 2013, 2:07 am

How many other Bush TV's used the same electronics chassis as the Bush TV43?

Freya · 31st Jan 2013, 9:08 am

Going on your service sheet, I would say four sets share the same chassis, it lists the TV43, TV36c, T36, and the TUG36c

audion_1908 · 31st Jan 2013, 9:43 am

I should have looked at the data sheet!

audion_1908 · 31st Jan 2013, 10:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort

The tube in your Bush should be a Mullard MW36-24 or MW36-44. It may have had a rebuilt tube fitted but generally the labels do fall off. Don't risk the tester on anything that may be servicable. You will soon sort the odd faulty valve when you eventually power it up. Take care. J.

If the CRT is dead or the emission is too low, what are the chances of getting a compatible watchable replacement and what would it cost?

I won't be able to do any work on the Bush TV43 for a few weeks sadly.

audion_1908 · 2nd Feb 2013, 7:43 am

As most of the stickers have fallen off and been lost long ago I would love to see some pics of the stickers. My Bush TV43 had some 50 odd years ago, maybe I could print then out to size and stick them in the TV?

Heatercathodeshort · 2nd Feb 2013, 9:59 am

Take it easy. That is why I attempt to get 'first light' as quickly as possible with the minimum of disturbance. It works believe me. This procedure will prove the serviceability of the tube, line output transformer and the general 'running gear'.

As a service engineer I am going to guess that the tube and lopt are capable of giving a picture providing the tube has not been done to death on a tube tester/re activator late in it's life, possible of course but lets look on the bright side.

The labels are the last thing you need to worry about at the moment. As you have gone a bit too deep for first light I would suggest you tidy it up in an attempt to get some mains applied and assess the general overall condition. Power supply first [easy with the TV43] followed by the line output stage. The rest is reasonably straightforward but you need to know your way around a television circuit and the purpose of the various capacitors and resistors.

You will need a simple reliable meter to take basic readings, nothing fancy. I guess your AVO works OK or is it still missing it's little hand? You will be driven to the moon and back without getting anywhere if your meter is hopelessly out of calibration or has intermittent leads.

Plenty of good advice here from Forum members but you need to get the procedures in the right order. Let's hope you get some signs of life soon. A good read of previous repair notes posted by members should help.

Regards,
John.

audion_1908 · 3rd Feb 2013, 4:22 am

Heatercathodeshort, you are right, I need to test the basics.

I think I will finish the last few caps on the RF board and finish some odds and ends. I need to get the valve tester and AVO working and test the valves and try powering the TV up. But first the AVO is missing its leads and has two burned low resistance resistors and the valve tester needs some work.

I do have a basic idea of how the tv circuit works and I have some vintage TV repair books, the AVO needs some test leads, I will have to make some up.

I have been reading my new vintage TV repair books, there where some very smart in the 1930 to make the 405 line system!

Heatercathodeshort · 3rd Feb 2013, 9:22 am

You don't need to get the valve tester working, believe me. It will not help you with your restoration. [They are only used by valve dealers these days] I have a TMK multimeter that I used to carry in my service kit. It works OK but the 15v battery for the high ohms range is low but I think you can get these off the Internet.
You are most welcome to it foc and it's easy to use. PM me if you think you would like it with your details. John.

Freya · 3rd Feb 2013, 10:55 am

Just to reiterate what John said.
You are kind of taking the fun out of the restoration, if you test the valves first you do so you might feel that they are little on the low side maybe and go and buy a new valve which means you miss the effect a low valve might have. Also most valves that test low from a TV will in fact work perfectly.

I speak from experience as this is what I wanted to do with my first set, in fact when the set was on it told me what needed doing with a nice purple glow from the EHT rectifier and the output valve

It won't damage anything.

Steve

mark pirate · 3rd Feb 2013, 1:09 pm

John and Steve are spot on.

You will also learn a lot more if replacing one cap at a time, and noting the results.

Blanket replacement of parts does not teach you anything, and you may end up chasing your tail trying to sort out the man made faults by fitting the wrong part or by disturbing other components and wiring.

I hope you take up Johns generous offer of the meter, don't rely on your faulty Avo.

Mark

27th Jan 2013, 7:17 pm	#62
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration it is a shame I can see the glue marks where lots of sticker wher in the tv and they are all gone! It is a shame I can see the glue marks where lots of stickers were in the TV but they are all gone!

27th Jan 2013, 7:36 pm	#63
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration The crackle effect is a conductive graphite coating that forms the EHT smoothing. Don't worry about it's condition, it will have very little effect, if any on the final picture even if badly flaking. DON'T clean it! The tube is probably the original with some emission. Hold your breath. John.

27th Jan 2013, 8:29 pm	#64
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration I will be testing my valve testers heater autotransfomer and if ok then an EF80 or two tonight.

27th Jan 2013, 8:34 pm	#65
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration You won't see snow on a TV43. As a very rough guide their should be a raster and a slight mush on sound. Operating the Band change switch and scratching the aerial socket with a screwdriver should produce flashes and crackles. J.

27th Jan 2013, 8:35 pm	#66
Freya Octode Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 1,989	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration With the brightness up you should see a blank raster, no snow. sorry John, crossed post. Steve

27th Jan 2013, 8:37 pm	#67
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration so I will have to get the rf modulater build and setup an old pc with MythTV to test it So I will have to get the RF modulator built and setup an old PC with MythTV to test it.

27th Jan 2013, 8:42 pm	#68
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration Your DVM should show up any leakage in those caps, more so at that age of them. __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

27th Jan 2013, 8:56 pm	#69
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration my dvm's are old £5 maplin specials, but I do have and old avo meter I am fixing, the DVM's I think would only put 9v max on the caps and the avo 1.5v max, I will still test a few My DVM's are old £5 maplin specials, but I do have and old Avometer I am fixing. The DVM's I think would only put 9V max on the caps and the AVO 1.5V max. I will still test a few.

28th Jan 2013, 12:20 am	#70
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration its not going to be quick to fix the avo meter sadly, and I am having truble working out where to put the missing pointer as the shaft is round and gows all the way round with no stop? I have found a mix of vinegar and a bit of washing up liquid is good to balence the valves in for a day or two to help clean the corroded pins, finishing with cotton wool buds and contact cleaner! It's not going to be quick to fix the Avometer sadly and I am having trouble working out where to put the missing pointer as the shaft is round and goes all the way round with no stop. I have found a mix of vinegar and a bit of washing-up liquid is good to balance the valves in for a day or two to help clean the corroded pins, finishing with cotton wool buds and contact cleaner!

31st Jan 2013, 2:07 am	#71
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration How many other Bush TV's used the same electronics chassis as the Bush TV43?

31st Jan 2013, 9:08 am	#72
Freya Octode Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 1,989	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration Going on your service sheet, I would say four sets share the same chassis, it lists the TV43, TV36c, T36, and the TUG36c

31st Jan 2013, 9:43 am	#73
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration I should have looked at the data sheet!

2nd Feb 2013, 7:43 am	#75
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration As most of the stickers have fallen off and been lost long ago I would love to see some pics of the stickers. My Bush TV43 had some 50 odd years ago, maybe I could print then out to size and stick them in the TV?

2nd Feb 2013, 9:59 am	#76
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: My Bush tv43 restoration Take it easy. That is why I attempt to get 'first light' as quickly as possible with the minimum of disturbance. It works believe me. This procedure will prove the serviceability of the tube, line output transformer and the general 'running gear'. As a service engineer I am going to guess that the tube and lopt are capable of giving a picture providing the tube has not been done to death on a tube tester/re activator late in it's life, possible of course but lets look on the bright side. The labels are the last thing you need to worry about at the moment. As you have gone a bit too deep for first light I would suggest you tidy it up in an attempt to get some mains applied and assess the general overall condition. Power supply first [easy with the TV43] followed by the line output stage. The rest is reasonably straightforward but you need to know your way around a television circuit and the purpose of the various capacitors and resistors. You will need a simple reliable meter to take basic readings, nothing fancy. I guess your AVO works OK or is it still missing it's little hand? You will be driven to the moon and back without getting anywhere if your meter is hopelessly out of calibration or has intermittent leads. Plenty of good advice here from Forum members but you need to get the procedures in the right order. Let's hope you get some signs of life soon. A good read of previous repair notes posted by members should help. Regards, John.

3rd Feb 2013, 4:22 am	#77
audion_1908 Hexode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chertsey, Surrey, UK. Posts: 456	Re: My Bush TV43 restoration. Heatercathodeshort, you are right, I need to test the basics. I think I will finish the last few caps on the RF board and finish some odds and ends. I need to get the valve tester and AVO working and test the valves and try powering the TV up. But first the AVO is missing its leads and has two burned low resistance resistors and the valve tester needs some work. I do have a basic idea of how the tv circuit works and I have some vintage TV repair books, the AVO needs some test leads, I will have to make some up. I have been reading my new vintage TV repair books, there where some very smart in the 1930 to make the 405 line system! Last edited by audion_1908; 3rd Feb 2013 at 4:51 am.

3rd Feb 2013, 9:22 am	#78
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: My Bush TV43 restoration. You don't need to get the valve tester working, believe me. It will not help you with your restoration. [They are only used by valve dealers these days] I have a TMK multimeter that I used to carry in my service kit. It works OK but the 15v battery for the high ohms range is low but I think you can get these off the Internet. You are most welcome to it foc and it's easy to use. PM me if you think you would like it with your details. John.

3rd Feb 2013, 10:55 am	#79
Freya Octode Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 1,989	Re: My Bush TV43 restoration. Just to reiterate what John said. You are kind of taking the fun out of the restoration, if you test the valves first you do so you might feel that they are little on the low side maybe and go and buy a new valve which means you miss the effect a low valve might have. Also most valves that test low from a TV will in fact work perfectly. I speak from experience as this is what I wanted to do with my first set, in fact when the set was on it told me what needed doing with a nice purple glow from the EHT rectifier and the output valve It won't damage anything. Steve

3rd Feb 2013, 1:09 pm	#80
mark pirate Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK Posts: 5,185	Re: My Bush TV43 restoration. John and Steve are spot on. You will also learn a lot more if replacing one cap at a time, and noting the results. Blanket replacement of parts does not teach you anything, and you may end up chasing your tail trying to sort out the man made faults by fitting the wrong part or by disturbing other components and wiring. I hope you take up Johns generous offer of the meter, don't rely on your faulty Avo. Mark