G26C585/01 Philips G9 colour set

[Philips210]

Hi.

I often wondered why Philips didn't offer a 22" G9, though that would probably have been even less reliable than the 26" version due to the heat build up in a smaller cabinet.
I believe Grundig had a 22" 110 degree delta gun set with thyristor line output stage around the mid 1970's.

I liked the 20AX system in the G11 and other sets and always managed to obtain good convergence/purity, not that you needed to adjust this very often. ISTR it was the red and blue beams that were first adjusted followed by the green beam.

Regards
Symon.

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by hans

It was quite late to introduce 110 degree tubes in 1976. Philips had these tubes on the other European markets five years earlier. Was there no interest for slimmer sets in the UK?

From the pictures, I'm pretty sure the tube used is a 110 degree A66-140X.

In South-America they did indeed continue to use 90 degrees tubes, but that's another story.

[Welsh Anorak]

There wasn't much interest in 110 degree CRT sets here in the Seventies as the main bulk of sets sold were 22". Pye did offer a (rather nasty) 22" 110 degree TV but there was little benefit with the additional parts needed and the 90 degree 725 series was a far better TV in all respects despite the extra inch or two.
People who wanted a slimmer large screen set would often be looking to an imported European model as these sets were usually better specified with touch tuning, remote control and so on.
Maarten is correct - the G9 had an A66-140X CRT. The G9 was slightly less bulky than the equivalent G8 (the 526) which had been around a good few years by then, but bigger than the G11 which quickly replaced it.
Glyn

[hans]

Sure it was the A66-140X? By 1976 even the A66-410X was "old news" by then. (At this time the the Pkilips K11 with 20AX was on the market.)

[jjl]

Hans

That's interesting.

I've often wondered how much similarity there was between the European market K* and UK market G* Philips colour sets. Surely by the mid '70s it wouldn't make sense for e.g. the K11 and G11 to be completely different designs given that both were 625 line PAL sets, albeit with minor differences in the type of tuner and PAL system required depending on market.

John

[ben]

Bear in mind the Euro K11 was a good few years older than UK G11.

But yes, it does seem odd that there were parallel developments going on. One might argue that it was some kind of protectionism at work - Uk designers, Uk mfr'g. But then, Japanese kit was being imported fairly widely in the 70s and we all know what eventually happened to the UK setmakers.... Interesting avenue to explore.

[Welsh Anorak]

I agree that the A66-140X was old by that time. It could have been a -410 which, I believe, was the 'quick-heat' version. One thing that's for sure is the big convergence panel, so it was definitely a delta-gun tube.
Could be that Philips GB had a stock of these CRTs which they used while waiting for the 20AX to come on stream.
Glyn

[FERNSEH]

All the G9 sets I had on rental were fitted with the quick warm-up A66-410X.
Can't give a precise date when the quick heat tubes were introduced but I'd guess 1975.
Radiomuseum suggests 1973, perhaps that was in Europe but I remember the Pye 731 sets I bought in 1973/74 used the A66-140X CRT which has the 0.9amp heater.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_a66-410x.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_a66-140x.html

Radiomuseum tells us that the developer of the 110 delta CRT was Telefunken, I always thought it was Philips.

DFWB.

[hans]

Originally Posted by jjl

I've often wondered how much similarity there was between the European market K* and UK market G* Philips colour sets. Surely by the mid '70s it wouldn't make sense for e.g. the K11 and G11 to be completely different designs given that both were 625 line PAL sets, albeit with minor differences in the type of tuner and PAL system required depending on market.

The K9 was introduced about 1973, the K11 is just a K9 that is made to drive a 20AX tube. The K12, which is a completely different design compared to the K9, was the Continental model when the G11 was introduced in the UK. The K12 resembles the K30 in many ways, but the chassis is bigger.

I once got a K9/11 that was modified for UK use. It only had an add on module for the sound 5,5/6 MHz spacing difference. I just removed it and rewired it according to the original diagram, and everything worked as normal. How well the set worked in the UK I don't know, but as this seems to have been an official "mod" it should have worked well.

The UK Philips sets seems to be very different from the Continentals ones, and with fewer model changes. Especially the G8 dragged on. It was introduced when the K80 (maybe even K70) was current here and was still in production when the K12 was introduced. That was a lonng production run...

[hans]

Originally Posted by ben

Bear in mind the Euro K11 was a good few years older than UK G11.

But yes, it does seem odd that there were parallel developments going on. One might argue that it was some kind of protectionism at work - Uk designers, Uk mfr'g. But then, Japanese kit was being imported fairly widely in the 70s and we all know what eventually happened to the UK setmakers.... Interesting avenue to explore.

I can't see any good reson for the UK and Continental sets being that different. We had UK sets modified for use here, and "Continental" sets were sold in the UK.

For the "French" marked they had good reason to have different chassis due to SECAM and the need for multisystem sets.

[Welsh Anorak]

I think it had more to do with having a design and manufacturing team here in the UK. I agree the G8 had a long production run but it was a good design and there was no particular need to completely rethink it, just to update as they went along. A matter of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'! Then they did break it with the G9, but redeemed themselves with the G11.
I must admit the K70 was a bit of a culture shock to those whe were dealing with the G6 and G8. Great sets - but that print?
Glyn

[Philips210]

Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak

I agree the G8 had a long production run but it was a good design and there was no particular need to completely rethink it, just to update as they went along.Glyn

Hi.

Agreed, the G8 was a good set that I think most of the trade liked. One obvious area where the G8 was updated was the convergence panel but this turned out to be a retrograde step. The early arrangement in the 520 series was altogether better. The combined "signal" panel was a good upgrade however. It's a pity Philips didn't upgrade the G8 LOPTx for a more reliable one.
Incidentally does anyone recall if the G9 LOPTx was a reliable type or not?

Regards
Symon.

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by jjl

I've often wondered how much similarity there was between the European market K* and UK market G* Philips colour sets. Surely by the mid '70s it wouldn't make sense for e.g. the K11 and G11 to be completely different designs given that both were 625 line PAL sets, albeit with minor differences in the type of tuner and PAL system required depending on market.

Philips didn't always have global designs. There was an internal competition between the various design departments. Their television sets in the 1970's were still designed in parallel in at least: The Netherlands/Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, Italy, Sweden, Spain, the UK, Singapore, Australia, Brazil.

I think Brazil mostly used and modified global designs that originated in the Netherlands (such as the K7-based KL1), as did South Africa (from the K9 on) and possibly other CKD-assembly lines.

The K8 chassis and its foreign cousins, all introduced around 1970/1971, might be the most bizarre example of local design departments at work. It was developed in the Netherlands and also produced in at least Belgium and Italy. For 1970 it was already a bit old fashioned with lots of valves and no IC's but they probably decided that the introduction of a 110 degree tube in itself was enough already.

On the other hand, Philips UK decided to leave the tube at 90 degrees but to do an all-solid-state design.

Philips Germany apparently liked the idea of a 110 degree set but they introduced a few IC's for the colour decoder and touch tuning while using the quite complex high voltage section of the normal K8. Their chassis was called K8D.

Philips Sweden decided that the old fashioned decoder and small signal section of the K8 was in fact quite satisfactory and only redesigned the PCB, but worked together (apparently, mostly gathered from the code numbers of the parts they used) with Philips Austria and Philips Germany to build the high voltage section the K8D never had. Still using some valves, but power transistors for the E/W correction and a tripler for the EHT. Their chassis was called K80 and was only used in 2 years worth of Swedish sets and a handful Austrian sets imported there from Sweden.

Germany switched to producing video recorders around 1982 after the K12 ended. The last exclusively UK-designed chassis as far as I know was the 2A in the mid 1980's.

[Philips210]

Hi.

Ah yes, the 2A. I quite liked that chassis but power supply rebuilds had to be done very thoroughly to avoid repeat problems. I came across a number of these sets with bodged power supplies that needed considerable work to bring them back to life. I used to use genuine Philips parts for such repairs. The sets gave a good picture with their excellent 30AX CRTs.
There was also the 2B and the high end 3A chassis, great sets like the KT4/K40 System 4 were as well.

Regards
Symon

[hans]

Originally Posted by Maarten

Philips didn't always have global designs. There was an internal competition between the various design departments.

Do you have any idea why it was like this? It must have increased the cost of the sets.

[Maarten]

It must have grown organically that way, since local production was one of the traditional strongpoints of Philips. That way they had a presence on every worthwhile market while avoiding import taxes and could adopt to local markets faster. As can be seen from the K8/K8D/K80 they heavily borrowed from eachother thus avoiding the costs associated with reinventing the wheel. The introduction of a more advanced wired remote control and touch tuning in the K8D was probably heavily dictated by the German market, so some redesign was needed anyway. Sweden may have been a bit impatient and wanted to see more transistors and not await the development of the K9. In later chassis models, the double work was eliminated by having factories specialise in their own product range and/or destination market. Krefeld for video recorders and tuner modules, Norrkoping for microwave ovens, Monza and Barcelona for portables, France for mid range sets, Netherlands for development and CKD sets, Belgium for top range sets, Singapore for Asian sets, Brazil for South American sets, Mexico for US sets, roughly.