Marconi 703 in the Bonhams November sale -

[radiolot]

Hello again,

As the consignment avenue continues, I thought it best to provide you with an update on the next London sale at Bonhams.
With the 702 selling in the last such sale in April, I felt it rude not to include at least one mirror-lid in the forthcoming sale.
So I've got hold of two. A 703 and, don't get too excited, an Ekco TSC48. The other pieces of interest is a good selection of paperwork, including signed books by Baird and some posters advertising HMV products that were hanging on the walls during the 30's Radioympia exhibition.

This 703 has no post-war componants inside at all. The 6/6 Emiscope measures continuity as does the EHT trans'. Just the way we like to find them maybe.

I only announce this update, due to the number of BVWS and other forum members wanting to kick out me what was coming up - I give in and tell you! Obviously, being early days, there is still 2 months left for entries, so I might well have a bigger selection when I come to write to final cut of the catalogue.

I am as ever letting you know so space, wife-reassurance proceedures and appropriate money obtaining may be made.
Oh, did I mention a Baird Televisor too? No?? What a shame!

Any questions, I'm at the end of the phone - 0207 393 3984, due to me not logging on this fine forum everyday (shame on me)

thanks
Laurence

[HamishBoxer]

Whats the guide price re Ekco?

Thank You David

[radiolot]

The Ekco will be arriving here next week from Hampshire - I have yet to examine it. I would like to make sure it is a complete set and not filled with house bricks. If complete, these usually make around £200-800 depending on condition, continuity, etc, etc.

thanks
Laurence

[HamishBoxer]

Thank You.

David

[ianm]

Yet another 703 surfaces!

The relatively high survival rate of this particular model never ceases to amaze me.

[radiolot]

It is a terrible shame the serial number plaque is missing - the owners are still looking for it in their garage room, so all might not be last. That number might be useful to see if this is a 1937, 38 or 39 set.
But, and this is the big but, her parents bought it new from Harrods as a wedding present for each other in late 1936 - a pre-order?

How would one go about finding out which batch this is from - the first of eight, the second of ?? or the last of ?? ?=number(s) Anyone out there fancy filling in the ? symbols?

I'll be having a good poke around for any evidence of 240 line tomorrow, but something tells me I might be wasting my time....

Lau

[ianm]

I reckon this is the one that featured in Antiques Roadshow about three years ago.

Laurence, is this so?

[brianc]

Originally Posted by ianm

Yet another 703 surfaces!

The relatively high survival rate of this particular model never ceases to amaze me.

I agree Ian, but they are such superb bits of furniture, it takes a certain type to destroy them even when they pack up for the final time. The radio and record player side also keeps their usefulness alive longer. Eventually, ornaments get put on them and as long as the original owners don't move to a smaller place, they get forgotten as a TV and become another piece of furnitur.

[radiolot]

I see some digging has been done. Yes, this was the one on the Rochester Cathedral roadshow, however, it looks better in real life than on the footage.
I saw the tape of this play three weeks ago and had a laugh when he said "you'll never ever be able to get a picture on this again".

Due to the age of that roadshow filming, I would strongly suggest you view the actual set and not what you saw in the film. I have removed all the dust and crud from the top and the veneers are not at all bad. Used an airline to blow out under the lid and it is now spotless.

Next to the KT41 valve, is stamped on the chassis 2224, also repeated on the power chassis by the sound tag strip.

There is a very nice label tied to the HT lead which has been typed in red ribbon - it says (reproduced here as it appears):
"PROPERTY OF WORKS DESIGNS DEPARTMENT
TELEVISION 'C' MODEL
Not to be disposed of without reference to Mr. Agate"

Who was Mr. Agate? a design signer-completor?

On two further labels handwritten tied to the timebase and radio chassis, are written with "No. 5"

Having removed the escuteon from the switch area, the mint-condition 405/50 - 240/25 legend is there, but no switch. Interestingly, the hole beneath through the chassis carries one old VR wire which is ended in the void, but soldered to something in the back of that chassis - could this have been a 240/405 connection they forgot to rip out?

Still looking for the plaque, but my optimism is narrowing. Thankfully, they know what it looks like and the size it is.

I am still very much looking forward to knowing the batch numbers of manufacture. We know of at least eight - how many 703s can we say for definately are out there??

thanks
Laurence

[peter_scott]

Hi Laurence,

It does look as if the stamped 4 digit numbers give an indication of when the assemblies were made. Another guide is whether or not a socket and componentry for the Baird valve is present on the timebase chassis. I think early sets will have an exposed socket. Later ones will have a socket with a blanking plate fitted on the top side of the chassis and later still have no socket and a blanking plate fitted to the underside of the chassis.

With the timebase carrying number 2224 you can see where I would place it on the table below.
This doesn't necessarily tell us when the set was built as I suspect some factory refurbished sets
may have had assemblies swapped out after the war. Having said that, if you are seeing other assemblies in the set with similar serial numbers then they are most likely original to the set.
e.g. In my set all the assemblies have serial numbers around the 5000 mark.

Peter

TRF....Timebase....Owner....Model....Data Plate....CRT Metalwork....V8 socket...Purchase date

?...?....David Looser....901...No serial....Long metalwork..exposed V8 socket
?...122...Moses Znaimer.......702...H 1007...Long metalwork..exposed V8 socket... < 26th Nov 1936
?...247...Ian Blackbourn ...900...41269...N/A.. exposed V8 socket
?...?....David Boynes....901...H 7081......Long metalwork..exposed V8 socket
?...0821...Steve McVoy.....901...H 7099......Short metalwork..exposed V8 socket
?...0922...David Boynes...702...No serial....Short metalwork..exposed V8 socket
1012...1099...Rob (Draenog)....900...Y 475...N/A....under side blanking
?...1437...Jeffrey Borinsky.702...H 1132......Short metalwork..top mount blanking
?...2083...Steve McVoy.....702...H 1174......Short metalwork..under side blanking
3378...2772...Brianc.............703...H/1__99...Short metalwork..under side blanking... < 15th May 1937
4746...0980...Helmut Streiff......702...Y 224........Short metalwork..top mount blanking
?...2952...eBay................702...Y 241........Short metalwork..under side blanking
5061...5001...Peter Scott......901...H/1__6146...Short metalwork..under side blanking
?...?... KeithW......705... H/1__8032... N/A..?

[Kat Manton]

Hi Peter,

Does this help?

 TRF| T/B|Owner           |Model|Data Plate|CRT Metalwork  |V8 socket          |Purchase date
----+----+----------------+-----+----------+---------------+-------------------+---------------
   ?|   ?|David Looser    | 901 |No serial |Long metalwork |exposed V8 socket  |
   ?| 122|Moses Znaimer   | 702 |H 1007    |Long metalwork |exposed V8 socket  |< 26th Nov 1936
   ?| 247|Ian Blackbourn  | 900 |41269     |N/A            |exposed V8 socket  |
   ?|   ?|David Boynes    | 901 |H 7081    |Long metalwork |exposed V8 socket  |
   ?|0821|Steve McVoy     | 901 |H 7099    |Short metalwork|exposed V8 socket  |
   ?|0922|David Boynes    | 702 |No serial |Short metalwork|exposed V8 socket  |
1012|1099|Rob (Draenog)   | 900 |Y 475     |N/A            |under side blanking|
   ?|1437|Jeffrey Borinsky| 702 |H 1132    |Short metalwork|top mount blanking |
   ?|2083|Steve McVoy     | 702 |H 1174    |Short metalwork|under side blanking|
3378|2772|Brianc          | 703 |H/1__99   |Short metalwork|under side blanking|< 15th May 1937
4746|0980|Helmut Streiff  | 702 |Y 224     |Short metalwork|top mount blanking |
   ?|2952|eBay            | 702 |Y 241     |Short metalwork|under side blanking|
5061|5001|Peter Scott     | 901 |H/1__6146 |Short metalwork|under side blanking|
   ?|   ?|KeithW          | 705 |H/1__8032 |N/A            |?                  |

I edited the table in a basic plain-text editor (fixed-width font), then pasted it between [code] [/code] 'BB Code' tags, so it's rendered in a fixed-width font and preserves spacing.

HTH, Kat

[peter_scott]

Thanks Kat, that's a big improvement.

Peter

[ianm]

Hi Peter,

Looking at your current list, my 702 seems to have gone AWOL.

[brianc]

I would suggest that, with that label attached to it, the 703 could well be a works prototype. This would explain the remnants of a possible standards switch which would have been fitted if the set was made before the decision about standards.

As to a Mr Agate, I have asked (via a phone message) a friend of mine who's father worked in Hayes if he has heard of him. The friend is also an EMI broadcast historian so may know something. Of course, Mr Agate could have been an employee of a competitor who was "dissecting" the set for commercial reasons!

[peter_scott]

Originally Posted by ianm

Hi Peter,

Looking at your current list, my 702 seems to have gone AWOL.

Sorry Ian,

It does exist on the "Dating EMI" thread and on BHTG. I think I must have copied the list from the top of the thread instead of the bottom. I'll use Kat's improved presentation on these other threads next time I update the table.

Peter

 TRF| T/B|Owner           |Model|Data Plate|CRT Metalwork  |V8 socket          |Purchase date
----+----+----------------+-----+----------+---------------+-------------------+---------------
   ?|   ?|David Looser    | 901 |No serial |Long metalwork |exposed V8 socket  |
   ?| 122|Moses Znaimer   | 702 |H 1007    |Long metalwork |exposed V8 socket  |< 26th Nov 1936
   ?| 247|Ian Blackbourn  | 900 |41269     |N/A            |exposed V8 socket  |
   ?|   ?|David Boynes    | 901 |H 7081    |Long metalwork |exposed V8 socket  |
C526|   ?|Mikeymushradio  | 900 |H 6080    |N/A            |V8 socket + valve  |
   ?|0821|Steve McVoy     | 901 |H 7099    |Short metalwork|exposed V8 socket  |
   ?|0922|David Boynes    | 702 |No serial |Short metalwork|exposed V8 socket  |
1012|1099|Rob (Draenog)   | 900 |Y 475     |N/A            |under side blanking|
   ?|1437|Jeffrey Borinsky| 702 |H 1132    |Short metalwork|top mount blanking |
   ?|2083|Steve McVoy     | 702 |H 1174    |Short metalwork|under side blanking|
3378|2772|Brianc          | 703 |H/1  99   |Short metalwork|under side blanking|< 15th May 1937
4746|0980|Helmut Streiff  | 702 |Y 224     |Short metalwork|top mount blanking |
   ?|2952|eBay            | 702 |Y 241     |Short metalwork|under side blanking|
   ?|3839|Ian McLaughlin  | 702 |H/1  4077 |Short metalwork|under side blanking|
5061|5001|Peter Scott     | 901 |H/1  6146 |Short metalwork|under side blanking|
   ?|   ?|KeithW          | 705 |H/1  8032 |N/A            |?                  |

[radiolot]

I have finally gone wireless at home!!! fancy me getting into this hi-tech stuff, of all things.

Wow, that lists nicely charts exactly what we need. Many thanks.

Interesting to note that the more that gets added, the more definative it gets. I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of exactly what came out of Hayes where and when, but with so many of us working from set known points, we can get near.

I have found the same 2224 number in chalk (faint but there) written on the bottom of the cabinet inside, so we know that chassis went with that case.
That red typed label is quite exciting - hoping that was not a 'standard' label, as it certainly doesn't look like one.

Looked again at the condition of the wiring - the more I look at it, the more I want to plug it in through a 60w light bulb. Something is stopping me though. I am resisting the urge!

Update when I have any news. Let's continue to build that wonderful HMV/Marconiphone resister...

cheers
Laurence

[brianc]

Looking at the s/n of Ian B's 900 suggests to me that there is a typo or perhaps a misread label!

[peter_scott]

Hi Brian,

Yes, that's what I thought too. I don't doubt that Ian is reading it correctly but the person who stamped it in the factory may have been reading a hand written number.

Peter

[radiolot]

Update time:

Whilst the 703 rests after a full exterior clean and polish-cloth, the depth of the walnut veneers has come up surprisingly well. I've left the dead spiders inside but have found another 2224 number stamped on the radio chassis.

The Ekco TC48 has arrived and I'll be having a look at that in a couple of weeks.
But what has arrived - two jobs I was working on - I could not prepare myself for is regards to quality and condition. Some of the best literature for the earliest sets I have seen.
Briefly - the instructions for the Plessey Televisor; the instructions for the Baird mirror-drum set; the prospecous leaflet for the Baird Catho-Ray 15" CRT; individual prospectous leaflets for Bairds T5C, T9, T10, T11, T12, T13 and T14 televisions and a whole wad of other makers' sets all pre-1939. And ALL of them are near-mint condition.

I have spoken already to Brian and hope to be scanning the Televisor leaflet on the same machine at work that I did for the 702 - to be used by anyone who fances reproducing them for their sets. Due to time, this will be done sometime in September.

Also, an Uncle Tom srystal set and more pre-1938 books on television including the 1898 publication which has all pages still uncut and never read.
Just the TV201 and the Televisor Arc to consign and we have a half decent line-up for November.

As soon as I have the scans for all the above, I'll announce it (please note a fee might apply for the scans - packet of fags or a 4-minute Amberol for my Phonograph for instance).

You are also most welcome to come to my office in Knightsbridge and handle/scan yourself until November if you like.

Thanks
Laurence

[PaulM]

Re:

There is a very nice label tied to the HT lead which has been typed in red ribbon - it says (reproduced here as it appears):
"PROPERTY OF WORKS DESIGNS DEPARTMENT
TELEVISION 'C' MODEL
Not to be disposed of without reference to Mr. Agate"

Who was Mr. Agate? a design signer-completor?

C S Agate was a member of EMI's Television Development Section, Works Designs Department. This set was thus probably a factory test unit. I have some more detailed work on Agate somewhere, but can't lay my hands on it right now. From memory I think that he was responsible for consumer television development and was initially one of the leading sceptics about 405/50 being ready in the time frame required.

Cheers,

Paul M