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Old 14th Nov 2020, 1:43 pm   #1
PsychMan
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Default Garrard AT60 Questions

Trying to get this AT60 is good order, and a few questions if anyone can help? The idler has been replaced with one from an SP25, is this a good and suitable replacement?

I don’t have the original to compare it to, but on the face of it, it does seem a good fit. There are speed problems unrelated to the auto change mech, which at this point could also be the speed change mechanism, that is getting stripped as we speak. But I do also wonder about the idler itself. The tension spring is good, motor is good, idler is clean and supple, as is the weighty platter and motor pulley.

The inner “silver” ring on the lovely big platter has yellowed at the edges (see pictures). It seems this ring is covered in plastic, and I wonder if that has yellowed rather than the silver under it. Before having a go and making matters worse, I thought I’d ask if anyone knows of a solution for this? If I have to live with it, so be it.

Bit of background: I bought this years ago when I knew a lot less than I know now. At the time the original idler was rock hard and beyond skimming or alcohol rubbing, so it got chucked and I nicked one from an SP25. I wish I’d kept the original to compare it to now!

I did also regrease many parts of the mech, but 5 years in a loft and the LM2 lithium grease seems to have gone thick and sticky. It was poor grease and probably too thick for this application anyway. So it’s being redone now with lighter white lithium grease. I’ve finally found a place in my home for this nice deck so want to get it fettled as good as possible and fit a Stanton 500 cartridge to it
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 1:57 pm   #2
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

I think that there may be a clear laminate over the silver trim which might peel off. The idler is likely to be the same on both decks.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 2:00 pm   #3
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

The turntable bearings ball race looks unusual to me, are those ball bearings packed with some sort of grease? Graphite perhaps?
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 2:09 pm   #4
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

That ball race looks to be properly gummed up. I usually clean them with lighter fluid or ethanol and apply light oil before re-fitting. As I expect you know - the idler is just that - not a gear, so if it's a nice fit, the diameter doesn't matter. Nice old TTs.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 2:19 pm   #5
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

Sure, providing itís of a diameter enough to make good contact with the platter and motor pulley. From what I recall it was the same size, so perhaps that is fine after all.

The black stuff is definitely grease, so I imagine I should repack it with grease. Just unusual to me as all the garrard decks Iíve worked on havenít had grease packed ball races, usually a plastic frame which the ball bearings sit in. The grease is definitely past its best. Any suggestions what to replace it with? I guess anything is better than the mess thatís currently there
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 2:28 pm   #6
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

I’m not lucky enough to own a 301, and at today’s prices neither will I! But looking online I imagine this is similar to the grease bearings used on those. From what I can gather a light grease / thick oil is the way to go. So I’ll use the white lithium grease
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 2:34 pm   #7
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

I can’t remember how many balls that bearing originally had but are the some missing, have some fell out when you removed it. They could be hidden by the grease. It’s a standard race from what remember and I cleaned and packed them with new grease 50 years ago.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 2:40 pm   #8
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

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Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
I canít remember how many balls that bearing originally had but are the some missing, have some fell out when you removed it. They could be hidden by the grease. Itís a standard race from what remember and I cleaned and packed them with new grease 50 years ago.
I thought that at first, but I think there was a bit of grease missing that gave that impression. Attached are 2 pictures of the race after a dip in degreaser, they all seem to be there. And actually theyíre captive in this race, lucky me, because I hate it when they fall out and Iím on my hands and knees with a torch in the workshop trying to find them!

Adam
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 4:11 pm   #9
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 7:00 pm   #10
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

The plastic ring over the aluminium trim on the turntable was originally factory fitted to protect the turntable from potential scratching, and was meant to be peeled off and discarded, but it's surprising how many remain after 50 or so years. Peel it off, and you'll see a great improvement in the apperence of the turntable mat.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 7:19 pm   #11
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

The speed issues were the speed change mech. Now it's overhauled properly, in manual mode its perfect, and operating the speed change feels like new.

Unfortunately the classic slow down happens when the mech underneath the tone arm comes into play for the change cycle. I didnt have time to get fully to the bottom of that area today.

Its always the way, If you want consistent and reliable operation like new, then a 100% stripdown is the only way.

Will look at this area tomorrow and see if I can get at the tonearm bearings as well
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 7:26 pm   #12
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio1950 View Post
The plastic ring over the aluminium trim on the turntable was originally factory fitted to protect the turntable from potential scratching, and was meant to be peeled off and discarded, but it's surprising how many remain after 50 or so years. Peel it off, and you'll see a great improvement in the apperence of the turntable mat.
Wow! That's quite funny, and yet again, your amazing knowledge has helped me, thank you Barry. I didn't want to start peeling it in case I was left with a worse situation than I started with.

Its a really nice deck, and I think will perform very well when I've finished
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 7:52 pm   #13
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

Yes, thatís better!
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 2:29 pm   #14
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

Well after a week of working on this, Iíve discovered a few things.

Incorrect arm set down and return fault, which after much digging I discovered was related to a spring / clamp attached to the tone arm assembly, which had clearly been ******** about with, causing excessive slop in tone arm movement. I have bodged about with it and got it behaving now, Iíd love to replace it ideally, but Iím suspecting I wonít find one of those anywhere. (Pic attached)

Looking for slow downs during auto trip, and dismantling the mech several times and pulling my hair out, I again revisited the idler and realised only 2/3 or 3/4 of it were contacting the motor pulley!! Strobe discs also verified poor speed in manual mode. Sometimes it really is the simple things you miss! The motor grommets donít look too bad, Iíve seen worse, so for now I will jack the motor up with some washers
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 2:38 pm   #15
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

Don't use Washers, use stacked Rubber Grommets. If anything, the speed should be more stable on Manual than on Automatic as it may have less drag. You can use fine washers to correctly locate the idler rim edge to align with the steps on the motor pulley.
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 2:40 pm   #16
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

Have you checked that the two small screws at the base of the stepped pully on the motor shaft are adjusted to enable the rubber of the interwheel to contact the full part of that which it needs to?
I have known these to work loose or not have been tightened after dismantle!
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 3:56 pm   #17
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

I don’t have any rubber grommets at the moment. I’ve found adding one washer on top of the existing ones has been enough. There are still the original rubber grommets underneath between these washers and the chassis, and it doesn’t appear to have increased rumble.

I did consider adjusting the pulley to compensate, but the motor doesn’t seem to have been touched and the pulley is firmly in place. I didn’t strip the motor on this one because the pulley spins quite well and carries on for a fair amount of time when switched off. So I just worked some oil into the bearings
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 6:37 pm   #18
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

Well a small fault does seem to remain.

With the over arm all the way down, ie you have auto played one record. If you reject mid play, the tone arm swipes across the record slightly first

With the arm out of the way this doesnít happen and it rejects normally. Also only seems to happen on 12 inch records...
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 7:08 pm   #19
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

I think I have this one...tone arm lifter sitting too low on the sprung loaded sliding piece the cam thingy lifts. (Really must learn proper names for these bits! ) Iíd had this off to clean and polish up the lifter. Must just have been more noticeable under different conditions
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 7:42 pm   #20
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Default Re: Garrard AT60 Questions

Nah....I’ll revisit this another day...

I’m also suspecting the auto spindle I have with this deck is not correct now I’m testing with stacks of records. Not quite as easy as I hoped
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