Beethoven 4 valve set, Identified as a model 99. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Peter73 · 30th Jun 2020, 12:01 pm

Does anyone have any info' on this radio, I have drawn a blank so far.
The valve lineup is: PENA4, VP4B, 345V and an unidentified four pin rectifier.
I'm guessing that it dates from the late 1920's

Station X · 30th Jun 2020, 12:04 pm

Beethoven radios often had a model/serial number stamped on the rear of the chassis where the aerial sockets are.

Peter73 · 30th Jun 2020, 12:49 pm

Unfortunately there is nothing stamped on the chassis anywhere.
There is evidence of an ID plate having been removed just below a Mullard copyright plate on the inside of the cabinet.

Station X · 30th Jun 2020, 12:55 pm

Interesting frame aerial.

I assume this is a mains powered TRF set?

Peter73 · 30th Jun 2020, 12:59 pm

Yes it would appear to be.

PJL · 30th Jun 2020, 3:08 pm

That sort of dial would place it around 1933/34.

Station X · 30th Jun 2020, 4:36 pm

Yes, not likely to be earlier than about 1933. Droitwich opened in 1934, but the frequency would have been announced in advance and manufacturers would have labelled their dials accordingly.

At some time Beethoven switched from TRF to superhets. My own model 64 is a TRF and I believe "Radio Radio" shows a slightly later numbered model which was a superhet. The model shown would probably have had a lower model number than that.

EDIT. I just had a look at the circuit for model 77 which is a mains superhet.

Gridiron · 30th Jun 2020, 4:57 pm

Only similar sets listed in the Mullard Valve Replacement guide are:
AC78 : VP4 or VP4A (7 pin), 354V, PENA4, IW3
AC99 : VP4 (7 pin), 354V, PENA4, IW4/350
283 : AC/VP1, 354V, PENA4 (7 pin), IW4/350

If model 77 is the same as AC77 this is must be a superhet as has a FC4 in the list of valves.
Mike.

Station X · 30th Jun 2020, 5:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gridiron

If model 77 is the same as AC77 this is must be a superhet as has a FC4 in the list of valves.

Mike.

Radio Museum have a picture of a 77, but none of an AC77. I don't know whether they're the same set.

Peter73 · 1st Jul 2020, 10:42 am

Thanks for your input gentlemen, I will keep looking.

Peter73 · 8th Jul 2020, 2:55 pm

Apologies gents, I should have gone to Specsavers ! How I missed the numbers on the Gram socket panel I really don't know.
99/4333 does this help?

Station X · 8th Jul 2020, 3:01 pm

Beethoven model 99 serial No. 4333.

That probably doesn't get you any further than a positive ID though.

ms660 · 8th Jul 2020, 4:08 pm

Something odd to me about this receiver, cabinet front doesn't look right, another receiver planted in the cabinet? Different chassis but similar tuning scale and loudspeaker bars in this one:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/beetho...per_minor.html

Lawrence.

PJL · 8th Jul 2020, 5:37 pm

Here is another one: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...8-abeb0126de64

ms660 · 8th Jul 2020, 5:45 pm

That's my theory out the window then.

Lawrence.

Station X · 8th Jul 2020, 5:45 pm

Looks like the mains transformer in the OP's set is a replacement.

PJL · 8th Jul 2020, 7:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms660

That's my theory out the window then.

Lawrence.

Your theory could be close, maybe Beethoven ordered a load of cabinets and the chassis didn't fit so they reworked by slapping an outer panel on the front.

Peter73 · 9th Jul 2020, 2:14 pm

Thanks very much PJL for identifying my set, much appreciated.
Pete.

McMurdo · 9th Jul 2020, 3:13 pm

rather a nice set, are you going to restore it?

30th Jun 2020, 12:01 pm	#1
Peter73 Triode Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, UK. Posts: 11	Beethoven 4 valve set, Identified as a model 99. Does anyone have any info' on this radio, I have drawn a blank so far. The valve lineup is: PENA4, VP4B, 345V and an unidentified four pin rectifier. I'm guessing that it dates from the late 1920's Attached Thumbnails

30th Jun 2020, 12:04 pm	#2
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Beethoven radios often had a model/serial number stamped on the rear of the chassis where the aerial sockets are. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

30th Jun 2020, 12:49 pm	#3
Peter73 Triode Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, UK. Posts: 11	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Unfortunately there is nothing stamped on the chassis anywhere. There is evidence of an ID plate having been removed just below a Mullard copyright plate on the inside of the cabinet.

30th Jun 2020, 12:55 pm	#4
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Interesting frame aerial. I assume this is a mains powered TRF set? __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

30th Jun 2020, 12:59 pm	#5
Peter73 Triode Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, UK. Posts: 11	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Yes it would appear to be.

30th Jun 2020, 3:08 pm	#6
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set That sort of dial would place it around 1933/34.

30th Jun 2020, 4:36 pm	#7
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Yes, not likely to be earlier than about 1933. Droitwich opened in 1934, but the frequency would have been announced in advance and manufacturers would have labelled their dials accordingly. At some time Beethoven switched from TRF to superhets. My own model 64 is a TRF and I believe "Radio Radio" shows a slightly later numbered model which was a superhet. The model shown would probably have had a lower model number than that. EDIT. I just had a look at the circuit for model 77 which is a mains superhet. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

30th Jun 2020, 4:57 pm	#8
Gridiron Heptode Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: West Midlands, UK. Posts: 662	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Only similar sets listed in the Mullard Valve Replacement guide are: AC78 : VP4 or VP4A (7 pin), 354V, PENA4, IW3 AC99 : VP4 (7 pin), 354V, PENA4, IW4/350 283 : AC/VP1, 354V, PENA4 (7 pin), IW4/350 If model 77 is the same as AC77 this is must be a superhet as has a FC4 in the list of valves. Mike.

1st Jul 2020, 10:42 am	#10
Peter73 Triode Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, UK. Posts: 11	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Thanks for your input gentlemen, I will keep looking.

8th Jul 2020, 2:55 pm	#11
Peter73 Triode Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, UK. Posts: 11	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Apologies gents, I should have gone to Specsavers ! How I missed the numbers on the Gram socket panel I really don't know. 99/4333 does this help? Attached Thumbnails

8th Jul 2020, 3:01 pm	#12
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Beethoven model 99 serial No. 4333. That probably doesn't get you any further than a positive ID though. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

8th Jul 2020, 4:08 pm	#13
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Something odd to me about this receiver, cabinet front doesn't look right, another receiver planted in the cabinet? Different chassis but similar tuning scale and loudspeaker bars in this one: https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/beetho...per_minor.html Lawrence. Last edited by ms660; 8th Jul 2020 at 4:28 pm. Reason: Revised and link added

8th Jul 2020, 5:37 pm	#14
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Here is another one: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...8-abeb0126de64

8th Jul 2020, 5:45 pm	#15
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set That's my theory out the window then. Lawrence.

8th Jul 2020, 5:45 pm	#16
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set Looks like the mains transformer in the OP's set is a replacement. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

9th Jul 2020, 2:14 pm	#18
Peter73 Triode Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, UK. Posts: 11	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set, Identified as a model 99. Thanks very much PJL for identifying my set, much appreciated. Pete.

9th Jul 2020, 3:13 pm	#19
McMurdo Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK. Posts: 5,271	Re: Beethoven 4 valve set, Identified as a model 99. rather a nice set, are you going to restore it? __________________ Kevin