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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 6:24 pm   #1
shaft
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Default Advice on firing up an old telly (TV12)

I wonder if anyone could offer some advice please?

I am now the proud owner of a Bush TV F12 A. The set appears to be in excellent condition, and a quick look inside the back cover reveals no sign of any obvious damage or previous tampering - all is complete, albiet with a covering of dust (as one would expect).

I would love to discover if this set works (I have a Domino converter for the signal), however I am all too aware of the dangers of simply plugging the set in. Is there a safe way to approach this? (I guess if I have to ask the question then the answer must be " leave well alone!)

I have no technical knowledge but would love to try the set without a) endangering myself, and b) wrecking the set.

Any thoughts anyone? should I look for an old established " TV repair man " to help? Would appliying mains gradually via a dimmer switch be ok (or is this, as I suspect, too mad\dangerous\stupid to even think about?).

All advice would be appreciated, and rest assured I have no intention of doing anything reckless (hence the plea for advice).

One last thing - please be gentle on a " thicky " enthusiast!

Thanks for your patience
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 7:01 pm   #2
paulsherwin
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

If this set is completely unrestored and you don't feel you have the expertise to restore it, your best bet would be to find a vintage TV enthusiast living nearby who could restore it at least to a basic level. A second best solution would be to courier it to someone. Whereabouts are you?

Do *NOT* switch it on!

A domestic light dimmer is not suitable for use with old valve equipment. To vary the applied voltage you will need a variable transformer ('variac'). Again, a specialist restorer should have one of these.

HTH, Paul
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 7:28 pm   #3
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

Paul,

Thanks for the prompt responce. Not really what I wanted to hear, but to be honest it's kind of what I was expecting. I wil certainly take your advice and not try the set (and my idea of a dimmer switch will be abandonded - I thought it seemed too simple!)

To be honset, I can't really justify the cost of a proper restoration at the moment, having only recently had one set restored to a high standard. A basic restoration might be worth considering if costs are not too high, though I guess that depends upon the set (I'm in Surrey, by the way).

Thanks once again, and rest assured I will not attempt to start the set myself.
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 7:30 pm   #4
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Default Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

Even if the set is in the original state it would need the components such as capacitors to be replaced/checked as well. Tv's also use much higher voltages than radios and can be lethal if you dont know what your doing - Im sure a member of this forum would be willing to assist if they are local to you failing that you could try and get a price from Radiocraft for restoring it to working condition

Blowfish in safety mode and trying new font effects

Last edited by Paul Stenning; 29th Dec 2004 at 1:43 pm.
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 7:49 pm   #5
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Default Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

Quote:
To be honset, I can't really justify the cost of a proper restoration at the moment, having only recently had one set restored to a high standard. A basic restoration might be worth considering if costs are not too high, though I guess that depends upon the set (I'm in Surrey, by the way).

Thanks once again, and rest assured I will not attempt to start the set myself.
The problem with this TV will be that it won't have been powered up for maybe 40 years. It's very likely that all the wax capacitors will need to be changed, and the electrolytic caps used for power smoothing are also likely to be bad. There may also be faulty wiring insulation. If you power the set up, it's very possible one of the electrolytics will explode, or a fire will start. This will seriously damage the set to say nothing of you and your house.

The best approach may be to clean the set externally and use it as a display piece. It can always be restored electrically at a later date, and is unlikely to lose value.

Best regards, Paul

Last edited by Paul Stenning; 29th Dec 2004 at 1:43 pm.
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 8:12 pm   #6
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

Hi Shaft


One half of me agrees with Paul. The other half does not. I'm not claiming to be " The Worlds Leading Expert " on valve televisions but they were what I cut my teeth on in the 70s (the previous generation of 60s TVs that were consigned to jumble sales). Oddly for someone my age, I knew more about valves than silicon to start off with.

On balance I would have a go, especially if you have gone to the trouble of investing in a Domino.
I mean if you don’t have a go, you will never learn and you will miss out on all the “fun”. “Cheque Book” based collecting is OK and I know a lot of folk who do it, but it’s never been for me personally!

I don’t really recommend powering the whole set up slowly using a variac. Depending on the set, this could cause damage. If the HT is derived though a valve rectifier, the HT won’t rise gradually across HT reservoir cap in any case. Broadly speaking, the main area that gives problems with long dormant sets are capacitors

The first thing I would recommend doing is cleaning the entire set out and giving the chassis a good " eyeball”. Opinions differ, but a lot of folk change all the paper wax covered capacitors as a matter of course. Others also change anything plastic with " Hunts " written on it. Also look for charred components, and drips of wax on the chassis (a sure sign a capacitor has been getting hot.

It is vital that you reform the large reservoir capacitor before applying power. This can be done with the capacitor physically " in situ " if it is difficult to remove. The capacitor must be electrically isolated though and fed from a variable HT (DC) supply in series with a limiting resistor and ammeter.
Take a look here for instance: -

http:// http://www.vcomp.co.uk/tech_tips/ref...eform_caps.htm

I think you should seek advise, but please have a go yourself. Until you have made the set safe to power up, you won’t know what you are “ in for”. You may have an easy ride, but don’t bank on it. The real “nail biter” comes when the set is working well enough to be able to ascertain what condition the tube is in. The other component that gives problems is the line output transformer. Both these components can be difficult and expensive to find, although (in theory) it is possible to get the transformer re-wound. Most everything else is pretty easy to source.


Best of luck



Chris
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 8:59 pm   #7
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

Chris, I think a TV12 would be a very poor choice as a first valve restoration project. I'm quite familiar with valve equipment and I'd be reluctant to work on one. TV restoration is a specialist area, and I think you'll find most of the TV people on this forum have some sort of background in commercial TV repair.

Your advice about recapping, reforming electrolytics etc. is fair enough as far as it goes, but I get the impression that shaft is freely admitting he's some way away from this level of electronic competence.

Shaft, if you want to get into restoring this set yourself my advice would be to start with a simple radio from eBay or wherever, then maybe progress to a 60s dual standard set, then go back to the TV12 - take it one step at a time. It's your telly though

Best regards, Paul
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 9:29 pm   #8
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

ok my opinion is this if you are good at soldering then have ago.
but change all the wax caps and reform the main electrolitic if poss but it will probrably be in poor condition anyway this set isnt the best starter because thing are tight to get at. also have you got an isolating tranceformer if not do not atempt tv repairs without one.
i dont know how much you know about electronic components but you had better read some books on the
subject first.
do not turn the tv on for the above reasons.
the set will only gain in value if kept in good condition.
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 9:56 pm   #9
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

Everyone has to start somewhere and if you want to do it yourself try to get someone who has previous tv restoration to sit with you and provide some guidance, I wouldnt try to attempt this project on your own unless you had experience working with high voltage equipment and a good background in electronics
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Old 22nd Sep 2004, 10:08 pm   #10
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

If this is your first restoration of anything with valves in, I would suggest that you might want to think about starting off with a couple of 1950s AM-only radios (metal chassis, not PCB), then maybe an FM radio or two, before venturing to a TV set. A radio has a lot of the same potential problem areas with a lot less parts, but without the line output and CRT etc to deal with. Once you have a better feel for what you are doing you should be able to have a go at the TV12, with assistance from people here.

Just my £0.02 worth!
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Old 23rd Sep 2004, 6:18 pm   #11
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

Many thanks for all the replies. This has to be one of the freindliest forums on the 'net!

Paul is quite correct in assessing my level of competence - I would love to try out some of the suggetions that have been made here, but I suspect that the sensible thing would be (as some of you say) to start with something much simpler.

I'm inclined to share evingar's view of " cheque book collecting " , which is why I'm feeling a little frustrated with the Bush TV12. Although I love the set (and have no desire to part with it), I paid the " going rate " on ebay, and there is little I can contribute to improve the set. My previous buys have all been real bargains, which in itself gives some satisfaction, and although I had my other TV set professionally restored, I did at least do all the cabinet work myself, so I shared in the experience of " bringing it back to life " .

Never mind, I will spend this weekend cleaning the chassis and polishing the casing - at least it will look good!

Thanks again for all the advice - much appreciated.
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Old 23rd Sep 2004, 6:29 pm   #12
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

One other possibility. Gerry Wells at the Vintage Wireless Museum does repairs to all sorts of vintage radios and TVs. He'll be able to get it going for you for a reasonable price (and more than likely while you wait!) but I must emphasise that this is NOT a full restoration. It may well not give its full performance and the long term reliability will be suspect because lots of old capacitors will not have been replaced. If you within reasonable reach of Dulwich, south London this is a plausible approach. If you have never been to the museum before it's more than well worth a visit.

http://www.bvwm.org.uk
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Old 3rd Oct 2004, 4:10 pm   #13
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Default Re: Advice on "firing up" a Bush TV12a

Many thanks to Ppppenguin for directing me to Gerry Wells.

I visited Gerry yesterday (amazing house, and a terriffic character), and he not only serviced my TV12 whilst I watched, but he also patiently answered may many anoying questions ( " what does that do? " " What's that for? " " why are you doing that? " etc).

A great day out, with the bonus of a working TV12 at the end of it! What could beat that?
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