Silly screws

[winston_1]

The number of silly screws manufacturers invent to stop us getting inside their gear astounds me.
The first I came across 30+ years ago were Torx which I think were invented by Philips for their CD players. Other manufacturers quickly followed using them and I got myself a nice set of Torx screwdrivers from RS.
Then triwing. Many VHS cassettes had one triwing screw in their cases. Getting screwdrivers was difficult but nowadays many hexagonal bit sets include triwing.
Next Torx appeared with a peg in the middle of the recess meaning a special screwdriver with a hole in the end was required. Only ever found one in T10 size but once again available in hex bit sets.
I also have bits for offset quadwing but not come across the screws yet.
Then there are slotted screws with a lump in the middle of the slot. Once again hex bits to the rescue except that these screws are often at the bottom of a deep hole. The answer is to grind a notch in the end of an old screwdriver.
Today I came across a new (to me) horror. I needed to get inside an old set top box and an initial glance showed the screws to be Torx with a peg in the middle. Can handle that I thought, but when I tried the driver just would not fit. Closer inspection showed them to be pentagonal Torx with a peg! I did get them out, a medium size watchmakers screwdriver jammed across two points and twisted with a pair of pliers.

Needless to say these silly screws go in the bin to be replaced with sensible screws. I will tolerate standard Torx as I have a set of drivers but not any of the others.

[paulsherwin]

I don't understand why manufacturers do this. You can always get funny screws out somehow, it's just a nuisance. Maybe it's some sort of mandatory safety thing?

Compaq always used Torx heads in their computers - utterly pointless PITA.

[AC/HL]

The general public, the target audience for these, have to go to some length to remove them, hence satisfying the requirement to be tamper-proof. Screws that are designed to be removable by adults only, eg battery compartments in child's toys, still use conventional heads.

[G8HQP Dave]

As most youngsters are increasingly unfamiliar with tools it won't be long before an ordinary screw is tamper-proof.

At the same time, new green policies may require items to be repairable so maybe 'tampering' with them will come back into fashion?

[cmjones01]

Some of these screw heads, especially Torx, are chosen because they're better for high-speed automated manufacturing. Torx bits fit their screws very securely, don't cam out, and are unlikely to round off, so if a person (or indeed a machine) is fastening thousands of them to a specified torque on a production line, they're a great choice.

However, the various varieties with obvious 'tamper-proofing' features do seem pointless, especially as bits to fit them are so readily available. I bought a set of 'mobile phone tools' on eBay a few months back which contains drivers for all the annoying little screws that phones contain these days. Many of them are so tiny that a standard flat- or cross-bladed screw would never work properly in the same space, but I do agree that some of them are just gratuitously different!

Chris

[barrymagrec]

In some cases, such as Torx, Robertson head,the heads are designed to be more suitable for automatic or semi automatic assembly - less possibility of slippage.

Manufacturers don`t care about the inconvenience to to casual repairers - as far as they are concerned an authorised repairer will have the correct tools.

Originally Posted by cmjones01

I bought a set of 'mobile phone tools' on eBay a few months back which contains drivers for all the annoying little screws that phones contain these days. Many of them are so tiny that a standard flat- or cross-bladed screw would never work properly in the same space, but I do agree that some of them are just gratuitously different!

I work repairing mobile telephones, and SMD, BGA soldering. There are many phones which requires at least 4 different special screwdrivers to take them completely apart.

Apple company in their last telephone Iphone 7, 8, X, etc. use a special "pentalobe" screw driver to open it, and then certain special ones with 3 blades or 4 strange blades, and very small.
That is happening not only in phones, also in cars, etc. Is a nightmare this strange screws fashion.

[G4YVM David]

Its a travesty really. The geniuses like whitworth etc who created repeatability and standardisation must be turning in their graves

David

[Andrew B]

I made this up YEARS ago and used it as a footer for my email. This discounts the present company on the forum.

"By the above statement sounds like you have bought into the age of consumerism where all things are purchased in stores and made in a magical place called a factory, these things are labeled "no user serviceable parts".
This is the same world where people are incapable of thinking, making or doing anything for themselves except making money to buy other stuff that they only think they want and don't really need..

The "no serviceable parts" label is there for four reasons.

1) To keep out the folks with no clue how to fix things

2) To keep those same folks from suing the manufacturer WHEN they hurt themselves.

3) We do not want the consumer to learn anything about the product so he can build his own or improve on ours.

4) We do not want the consumer to see why they are paying so much for a such badly made item.

There isn't any copyright inferred or implied, feel free to use it,

[TonyDuell]

I've always felt the 'no user serviceable parts inside' notice is true. After all, if I am servicing something, presumably either it didn't work before I started (I am repairing it) or at least it's not working _while_ I am servicing it. So I can't be a 'user' at that point.

As regards odd screw heads, the 'offset crosspoint' is, I think a 'Torq'. It's included in most of those 'security bit' sets. I have a set of the 5-pointed 'star' bits (like Torx, but with 5 lobes), including ones with a hole in the middle to fit over a pin in the screwhead. I think I got it at Machine Mart, but whether they still do it I don't know.

Another one (RS sell the tools I think) is 'System Zero' which was designed to be difficult/impossible to remove without the right tool. The head tapers so a Mole wrench or similar just springs off. I have a combined RS232/Centronics tester and EPROM programmer called a 'Ferret' which is assembled with those. No idea why, there's no good reason not to take it apart.

[Refugee]

Then there is flat blade to screw it in and a drill to get it out again.
Scroll down to the first row of photos.
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.co...crew-s/859.htm

[Herald1360]

The system zero tools are also expensive and I've not found any cheap copy versions yet.

[TonyDuell]

Now I know why a friend borrowed my set of System Zero drivers rather than buying them from RS

You can get hex insert bits for System Zero screws from RS which are a little cheaper. In any case, they are cheaper than the last flatblade screwdrivers I bought, and as I have said before 'I am not rich enough to buy cheap tools'

[kellys_eye]

I was going to 'tongue in cheek' blame Apple for this kind of thinking then Aitor (post #7) made this into an eye-rolling exercise.

We should be grateful the manufacturers haven't gone to 'snap-off' rounded head screws like the bolts they use on car ignition locks! - perhaps that's the next step? They could be designed for breaking at the correct torque insertion setting making auto-assembly even easier.....

[G6Tanuki]

The car ignition-lock snap-offs are a very good anti-theft precaution!

Anti-tamper screws can be fun: I used a bunch of anti-tamper woodscrews [which have a traditional slot but with the slot 'ramped' on the face which would take the drive when unscrewing] a while back. Cheap and available from Screwfix etc.

The standard "Torx" type and Allen-head machine-screws can be further anti-tampered by Aralditing a ball-bearing into the hole; this is a recommended 'fix' to prevent criminal removal of the doors from Land-Rovers.

My most-annoying-fastener is the triangular thing used on the nasty plastic outdoor utility-meter boxes. They don't provide any security at all, since the 'hinges' on these boxes are usually just a couple of cable-ties which yield to a good shove and then the whole door just drops away.

[Philips210]

Hi.

There's a another type of screw that is a cross between standard slotted and Phillips which I think is called a Modulo screw and is found in many electrical consumer units as in the RCD and MCB screw terminals. That is probably a very sensible idea to help prevent cam out when tightening. The corresponding screwdriver is like a Phillips type but with one of the blades longer than the other.https://cpc.farnell.com/productimage...L13405-500.jpg

Regards
Symon

I just use a left handed drill bit to get the b******ers out, then replace with a real screw. As for "no user serviceable parts" I take things apart after one use, most bits inside seem serviceable.

['LIVEWIRE?']

I concur with the majority of the points made in this thread. My sets of bits include Torx, Security Torx, Tri-wing, and those with a 'U' shape cutout to fit those security screws which otherwise would accept a standard screwdriver. Currently I have a battery charger to open in which one screw would accept a 'U' slotted blade, but the deep recess is too small in diameter to allow either of the three screwdrivers I have which accept different bits, so I'll have to enlarge the hole in the plastic case of the charger.

[Herald1360]

Qik'n'dirty antitamper screw- tighten up a Phillips or pozidriv screw then attack the head with a suitable drill bit......

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by Andrew B

The "no serviceable parts" label is there for four reasons.

1) To keep out the folks with no clue how to fix things

2) To keep those same folks from suing the manufacturer WHEN they hurt themselves.

3) We do not want the consumer to learn anything about the product so he can build his own or improve on ours.

4) We do not want the consumer to see why they are paying so much for a such badly made item.

Plus:
When the item develops a fault, the manufacturer does not want you to be able to have it repaired: they'll make no money if it is repaired by someone else. If they do offer to repair it, their repair price will make it cheaper to replace with new: either way, they simply want you to buy another one. So you think "Ah-Ha! I'll buy my next one from a different manufacturer". But that won't work either, since they all use the same 'philosophy': it's simply a cartel.

Al.