Garrard deck

[Bersham]

Good evening all,
I have a Garrard SP24 Mk1V which is running slow or not at all. By this I mean the minute you start the sequence and the arm is meant to rise and settle on the record it almost stops, sometimes it does stop.
I have cleaned the platter inside and even rubbed it down and spray painted primer to give it a bit more friction, sanded the idle wheel carefully but no good.
Cannot get a new idler, obviously.
Anyone got any hints tips they would be happy to share, I will be very appreciative of some advice from you professionals.

Thank you,

Pete

[Benjamin]

It probably needs stripping and degreasing. The grease hardens over time. Try heating above the platter with a hair dryer.

[Michael Maurice]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Try heating above the platter with a hair dryer.

No No No No No

Remove the platter, you will see a large cog. Remove the circlip, heat the cog whilst pulling upwards, try not to rotate it, it will come off.

Let it cool, remove the circlips holding the trip levers in place, do not force the trip lever out, heat the cog once more at the point where the trip lever pivots and using a flat bladed screwdriver lever the lever out. Clean everything with Isopropyl alcohol or other degreaser.

Re-assemble using 1 drop of oil on the trip lever pivot and a small amount of grease elsewhere.

[Beobloke]

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

No No No No No

Remove the platter, you will see a large cog. Remove the circlip, heat the cog whilst pulling upwards, try not to rotate it, it will come off.

Let it cool, remove the circlips holding the trip levers in place, do not force the trip lever out, heat the cog once more at the point where the trip lever pivots and using a flat bladed screwdriver lever the lever out. Clean everything with Isopropyl alcohol or other degreaser.

Re-assemble using 1 drop of oil on the trip lever pivot and a small amount of grease elsewhere.

These points merely address the usual ‘seized trip pawl’ issue and not what the original poster appears to be experiencing.

As far as he states, the automatics engage (which would not be the case with a seized trip pawl) but there is insufficient drive power to complete the cycle. If this is the case then the idler either needs replacing or the motor needs servicing due to insufficient torque.

[Top Cap]

When in the trade we often had this problem due to gunk in the gap between rotor and stator of the motor. A strip down and wash with IPA seemed to clear the problem, taking the opportunity to add some fresh grease to the bearings. The big secret was the re-assembly, I suppose the virtual non-existent trade will forgive me for sharing.
Re-assemble finger tight then holding the motor with one hand, try moving the spindle in all directions with the other hand, which should centre the rotor, then fully tighten the motor bearing end plates. You should be able to spin the rotor with ease and it should continue spinning a bit to prove nothing is trying to hold it back. Hopefully your deck will run OK providing other things like idler wheel, its bearing and the rim of the turntable is de-greased.

[analogadikt]

IMO all the steps suggested in the posts previous to this one will be required to get the deck working correctly and reliably.

Originally Posted by Beobloke

These points merely address the usual ‘seized trip pawl’ issue and not what the original poster appears to be experiencing.

As far as he states, the automatics engage (which would not be the case with a seized trip pawl) but there is insufficient drive power to complete the cycle. If this is the case then the idler either needs replacing or the motor needs servicing due to insufficient torque.

It is usually the cam wheel carrying the trip pawl that gets jammed. The trip pawl engages, and momentum of the platter rotates the cam slightly, so the arm raises. After this, the motor is not able to push the cam around as it is almost welded to the spindle post due to the dried grease. I had one extreme case where heating the cam spindle also did not work. My fight with that assembly loosened the spindle shaft where it is riveted to the chassis, and the cam wheel started rotating freely, along with the spindle shaft The automatics started working, so I left it at that. .

Regards,

Anwesh

[Michael Maurice]

Originally Posted by Beobloke

These points merely address the usual ‘seized trip pawl’ issue and not what the original poster appears to be experiencing.

As far as he states, the automatics engage (which would not be the case with a seized trip pawl) but there is insufficient drive power to complete the cycle. If this is the case then the idler either needs replacing or the motor needs servicing due to insufficient torque.

The problem is due to the cog seizing on its bearing!, remove clean and lubricate with fresh grease.

[Nickthedentist]

I suppose it could also be because the idler isn't as "grippy" as it should be, or a bit of both.

Sometimes, swapping the idler with one from a known-working Autoslim-style deck can be revealing.

[Bersham]

Hello all, thank you for your replies. I have already removed both platter and cam gear assembly, quite easily to be honest. I did however find the pawl a little stiff so it was removed cleaned and refitted with clock oil.
If I turn platter by hand everything works as I expect. How easily should this cam gear rotate? My thoughts are that the rubber wheel is not driving the platter very well, the motor is strong. I think Nickthedentist may be right about not being “grippy” but where can I get another one to try it?
Thanks again all

[Electronpusher0]

The idlers harden over time and become shiny, they can sometimes be revived by GENTLY abrading the outer edge with fine wet and dry.
I have some success reviving an unobtainable idler by stretching a flat drive belt over the perimeter of the idler, it increases the diameter slightly but still works.

Peter

[Nickthedentist]

Do try Peter's tricks.

Alternatively, you might find a better one in a similar scrap Garrard (try eBay), I think all the Autoslim-derived decks use a similar idler.

Others recommend sending them to a company in America to be re-rubbered, but it's far from cheap.

N.

[Half a Mullard]

This company can supply idlers on an exchange basis but again not cheap

https://www.gettheneedle.co.uk/rubbe...ey-wheels.html

Many of the Garrard models are interchangable. Ebay is worth a look, they do turn up from time to time.

[Bersham]

Thanks for your input with this. As an update, I have measured the OD of the idler wheel and it is 1.960 inches, 40 thou short of two inches. Is this enough to be a problem?

Pete

[Nickthedentist]

The absolute diameter of the idler isn't critical - though the diameter of the inner turntable and the motor pulley are! It just has to be big enough to engage the latter properly.

[Herald1360]

Yes, just think of the spindle-idler-platter drive rim as a series of pulleys with diameters S, I and R. The overall drive ratio will be:

S/I * I/R

The I's just cancel out in the multiplication.

[Bersham]

Hello all, thanks once again for the advice, at the moment I think I have sorted the problem. As I explain I know a lot of you will cringe. The spring which is meant to “load” pressure on the idler wheel against the platter was in my opinion suspect, the length of it was never going to work. I shortened it in stages until the platter and arm worked.
Now, I had it on test for a few days and would go to it and set it off, never missed a beat apart from when the arm raised and the platter seemed to slow down slightly
But otherwise ok. This morning I did a test again and noticed the arm skate, went to check for fluff and was suprised to find no stylus.
Can I ask for further help please? Where will I get a stylus, I’ve looked everywhere.

[Audio1950]

Originally Posted by Bersham

Where will I get a stylus, I’ve looked everywhere.

It depends on which cartridge is fitted, There should be a name and/or model number somewhere on it. A photo of the cartridge may be helpful.

Barry

[emeritus]

Household glycerine can rejuvenate some types of synthetic rubber. I used it to good effect on a Eumig cine projector where the variable speed drive was via a steel wheel pressing on a rubber-coated disc, the radial position determining the speed. It had become unusable due to slipping but after smearing with glycerine, leaving for 5 mins, and washing off, normal operation was restored.

[Bersham]

No makers name at all, just “made in Japan”.

[Nickthedentist]

THat's an Audio Technica AT-95, the older style made from the early 1990s until a couple of years ago.

Try https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Techn...0446576&sr=8-3