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Old 10th Mar 2020, 1:41 am   #21
1100 man
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

On the face of it, LED's seem to be more efficient than fluorescent, consuming less power for a given light output.

They achieve this by being highly directional- ie only pointing light in the direction it's needed.

Consequently, I find LED's as fluorescent replacements to give a very harsh light with hard shadows. The supposedly 'wasted' light from fluorescent reflects off multiple surfaces and gives a much more diffused light, filling in the shadows.

For commercial applications, the 6 foot twin 'high frequency' fitting has been my favourite for many years. With nominally 10 - 12,000 Lumens, It's very hard to beat.

As it's now nearly an extinct species, I've been looking for an equivalent LED fitting. The best I've found is made by Ansell Lighting. At 9000 Lumens and 83W, it seems to be the most powerful linear LED on the market.

I bought one to experiment with as I wanted to compare how bright it was compared to the fluorescent equivalent. Not analysing the numbers, just seeing how bright it was on the ground with my eyes, which in the end is all that counts!

My conclusion is that it is actually brighter than the fluorescent, but very harsh giving very hard shadows. The glare from the fitting is pretty intense in your peripheral vision- more so than the fluorescent.

I'm not denying the obvious advantages with LED- lower power consumption & instant warm up. But for my own workspaces, I'll definitely be staying with fluorescent- altogether much more friendly lighting!

All the best
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 2:33 am   #22
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

I bought some 400mm 10W LED under cabinet strip lights and fitted four in place of a 5 foot tube that I guessed was 40W.
The light is bright and even. The fittings have a defuser like those long box like ones that used to be fitted to strip lights sometimes with the ribs running along the full length.
I also made some home made LED lights about 10 years ago and on those I used small bits of one of those sheets with tiny pyramids on it that were used in office ceiling lights. They also give a good light spread.
Bare LEDs are the worst of all bare bulbs. I have never tried them as up-lighters as the type of ceiling paint you had to use with them is likely not in the shops any more.
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 10:42 pm   #23
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesomega View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Philpott View Post
The LED 'upgrades' for tubes i have seen in B&Q have a much lower lumen output- which is why i haven't bothered
Dave
That got me thinking, I've just asked for a quote to replace some double batten fittings in a room in a communal building where we want it at least as bright as the old fat tubes, by fitting LED types. I've been perusing the Toolstation and Screwfix catalogues and I see that for a given tube length you can get different power ratings with proportionate light output. Fluorescent fittings now all have HF ballasts and a typical 5' 58W tube is spec'd at 5200lm. Change to a twin fitting, using 24W LED tubes will give the same light o-p as a single fluorescent

If however you change to a batten with a fixed LED array you can get some really good light, for ex the Sylvania Single 5ft LED Batten gives an impressive 6500lm so I'd better get back to the electrician and ask for these or equivalent. You'd need two of these to replace a twin fluorescent
Please correct me if I am missing something here. In the second paragraph you mention a particular LED batten as being a good replacement for a 58W tube type but it draws 50W so only 8W less than the conventional tube batten it replaces. Surely the main reason for wanting to go down the LED route is that they are much more energy efficient?
As an aside, I have an energiser LED replacement tube in a 5 foot conventional fitting. It isnt quite as bright as the old 58W tube but is sufficient and consumes 22 W
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Old 17th Mar 2020, 6:39 pm   #24
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

Quote:
Please correct me if I am missing something here. In the second paragraph you mention a particular LED batten as being a good replacement for a 58W tube type but it draws 50W so only 8W less than the conventional tube batten it replaces. Surely the main reason for wanting to go down the LED route is that they are much more energy efficient?
As an aside, I have an energiser LED replacement tube in a 5 foot conventional fitting. It isn't quite as bright as the old 58W tube but is sufficient and consumes 22 W
Energy saving isn't always the only driving factor in these decisions. When these tubes are employed in an industrial application, their reliability and 'instant on' characteristic is very advantageous. As a practical example, my old friend Alex has a commercial garage workshop. His workshop has a high ceiling to allow clearance to allow for any type of vehicle to be lifted on his ramp. This can include "Hi-top" Transit vans. This means that the lowest point of the ceiling must be at least fourteen feet from the ground. The workshop is illuminated by five double fluorescent units. When any of these tubes fail it is necessary to get a mobile scaffold in order to renew them....and with ten tubes involved replacement is more frequent than you might imagine. It's often more cost effective to renew the lot at the same time. Also, a common failure mode is that one or more tubes keeps restarting and flashing on and off. This is very annoying when you're trying to work. Additionally, on a winters morning when the tubes are cold, they can be very reluctant to start and take some time to achieve full brightness. LED 'strip lights' solve almost all of these problems. They last longer, they come on full brightness regardless of the temperature and if one does fail, it generally just stops working, it doesn't go into flick..flick..flick mode.


I have three single tubes in my own home garage. They used to be all florescent tubes but I found that they were reluctant to start in the winter so that by the time they'd started I'd found what I was looking for and was ready to leave. I replaced two of these fittings with 20W LED tubes and kept the middle one as a florescent fitting. Result, instant light but if I need more light for working on something I put on the florescent one as well which ultimately gives out the most light once its started and warmed up properly.


HTH


TimR
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Last edited by flyingtech55; 17th Mar 2020 at 6:43 pm. Reason: Typo
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Old 17th Mar 2020, 9:24 pm   #25
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

My 1950's book on lighting mentions that it is often cost-effective to replace all lamps periodically.

As has been noted in other posts/threads, the "reluctance to start in the cold" problem can probably be solved by wax polishing the tubes. Tubes for the European market originally had a silicone coating to ensure reliable starting in cold and damp conditions but the practice seems to have been discontinued. Sainsbury's basic spray furniture polish has effected a 100% cure on my own and several of my friends' installations. The one in my garden shed that used to take several attempts to start in summer and refused point blank to start in winter, now starts instantly all year round. It should also make them last longer as a factor that determines life is the number of starting attempts. That might explain the need for frequent replacements.

Last edited by emeritus; 17th Mar 2020 at 9:39 pm.
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 12:41 pm   #26
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

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Originally Posted by emeritus View Post

'As has been noted in other posts/threads, the "reluctance to start in the cold" problem can probably be solved by wax polishing the tubes.'
I remember as an electrician in the 1970s, that some the fluorescent tubes we used at the plant I worked had a thin metal strip running the length of the tube to aid starting. These tubes had a bayonet-cap fitting at each end and tubular Bakelite-enclosed starter-lamps, betraying their age.

As more modern bi-pin tubes came in, bayonet to bi-pin adaptors were used to allow new tubes to be used on old fittings.
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 1:57 pm   #27
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

I remember these tubes. Infact I believe they may have been a slightly higher wattage as well up to the standard tubes. Somewhere I have the bayonet to bi-pin addaptors in my stash. Andy
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 2:33 pm   #28
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

In my 1950's book, 8' and 5' tubes were said to have BC caps. Only the lower wattage tubes had bi-pin caps.
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 7:14 pm   #29
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

According to Molloy's (Newnes)1954 Electrical Engineers' Reference Book, the tubes with the earthed metal strips to which I described earlier were designed for use with an 'instant-start' resonant transformer arrangement. But we used them in traditional starter-lamp fittings, probably 'because they were there'.
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 2:00 pm   #30
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

Quote:
Originally Posted by russell_w_b View Post
According to Molloy's (Newnes)1954 Electrical Engineers' Reference Book, the tubes with the earthed metal strips to which I described earlier were designed for use with an 'instant-start' resonant transformer arrangement. But we used them in traditional starter-lamp fittings, probably 'because they were there'.
I have a pair of 'Transtart' sealed flameproof fittings ex ICI Anhydrite mine which are intended to have the earthed-stripe pattern tube. (5' BC).
In all but warm, dry weather, they simply don't start.
The other 5' BC fittings have 80W chokes and thermal starters, and run just as well on modern T12 tubes as on the 65/80W dual-marked type, although with bi-pin end-cap adaptors, obviously.
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Old 2nd Apr 2020, 8:23 pm   #31
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Default Re: Fluorescent tube lamps

Just go down the LED route. It's a no brainer. I'm systematically replacing all florescents at work as they fail. We don't even try replacing the tube - they just go straight in the skip. The diffusers go yellow, they use excessive amount of energy, they don't give out much light, they're costly to run and they have more parts to fail.

I have a couple of "vintage" florescent fittings at home for display and occasional use, but I'd never dream of installing one now.

Do the lady a favour and give her much more light. I actually replaced 3x 6ft T12 IP rated fittings in some public toilets today with 3x 4ft 4000k LED equivelants. The room was positively dark with the 6ft units in.
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