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Old 17th Nov 2020, 5:05 pm   #1
19Seventy7
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Default 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Hi, Hoping this is in the right place

I've got a 1960s/70s Philips video camera, sold to me as a Television camera but I'm not sure if it was Television or not, if anyone knows? There's no numbers on it other than its serial number.

I can't get much of a picture out of it, I can only get a faint image from aiming the camera at the CRT I'm using that's supposed to display it's output. I have very little idea of how these work, other than the CRT scanning the image onto a mosaic. I'm wondering if maybe the CRT inside is low emission hence the lack of picture?

Any ideas appreciated

Thanks
'77
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 8:36 pm   #2
1100 man
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Hi 77,
Reading your description, I assumed this would be a 'tubed' camera. Looking at the pictures however, it looks too short to be tubed but more likely a solid state 'CCD' type.

Older cameras from the '60's & '70's used a tube. This is a bit like a CRT in reverse. The image focused onto the front of the tube modulates the electron beam that scans it (rather simplistic description). The cameras were quite bulky as the tube is quite long. My Sony camera from the late '60's is about 12" long without the lens.

Later cameras used a solid state target (A CCD- charge coupled device) and could be made much smaller & lighter. I would guess yours would be more likely to come from the '80's looking at the size.

Tubed cameras need quite a lot of light to get a decent image- my Sony needs good daylight.

My guess would be your camera could have been for security or maybe domestic use for an early video recorder. Certainly not broadcast television.

Would be interesting to see some better pictures- What's on the end opposite the lens? Are there sockets etc? Is it B/W or colour?

All the best
Nick
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 8:43 pm   #3
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

The camera has a rather nice lens with an optical viewfinder. I have seen this camera type before and it is a domestic model, alas I cant recall the model number. On thing to check is that the lens iris is fully open to let the most amount of light in. Apart from that there is little in the way of user controls..........
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 9:16 pm   #4
19Seventy7
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Hi Nick

I'm fairly sure it's tube, I've attached some photos.

Being from the 80s wouldn't surprise me to be honest as it's got a SCART to 6 pin DIN cable with it, not that the DIN cable fits anywhere on the camera, might not be original to the camera?

It was being used under what I'd say decent lighting, but the camera might disagree with me on that.

I did wonder about the Television claim, not that it bothers me as I'd have wanted it either way, but it has got "Training C/Hill WKS" written on the plug, although the plug might not be original, of course.

I've attached photos below, there's only the extra 5 pin DIN socket, which I believe a microphone would be connected to it. (A 3753/00 microphone was included, not that this works being plugged into the camera, either) I've not been able to get a picture out of it yet, but I'm assuming B/W.

That Sony camera sounds interesting too!

Edit: Post crossed with Beam currents'

Glad to know it was domestic, it's progress to finding out it's model number and year, not that that matters either, just fun to know. I think it's fully open? I've adjusted all the lens controls and the optimum picture is what I've described, maybe I should've been clearer too, it isn't exactly an image but a slightly lighter patch on screen.

Thanks
'77
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 9:46 pm   #5
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Quick update, I thought it best to clarify what I'm getting on screen so I took some photos.

The first one is of the camera facing my PC monitor showing this forums home page, the second is directed away, just into the room. Only a slight brightness change

The black bar is there and does move a little bit with the top of it looking like the CRT is scanning very slowly.

Thanks
'77
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 10:00 pm   #6
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

If the camera is generating syncs the bar should be stationary. The camera is a very
late tube type using a 2/3" vidicon so is probably prior to 1990. I had one but scrapped
it when the gun failed.
in 1988 I had an early Philips CCD mono camera (kit) which used small boards with SMDs.
The result with a macro lens was remarkable, and much smaller than a tube type.
Try removing the elaborate lens and use a basic "C" type if you have one.
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 10:08 pm   #7
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Hmm. Interesting!

You're right- its definitely a tubed camera. The style of the electronics looks late '70's. But there doesn't look to be enough electronics in there for a B/W camera from that era. I can't believe there is a mains power supply in there as well?

I wonder if it should plug into a companion unit which would have the power supply and the extra electronics?

What's on the end of the black cable coming out of the camera? What other connections are there apart from that DIN plug?

What makes you think it's philips- is there a logo on it?

Certainly a thorough search on the internet doesn't bring up anything like it!

Cheers
Nick
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 10:09 pm   #8
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Looks like a Philips LDH25 or 26. We used these as early film camera “video assist” units. Very simple electronics, 1/2”( IIRC) vidicon tube for C-mount lens.Free running line and field oscillators; could be externally synced. LDH26 was the later improved version. Used to get quite a belt from the EHT if you removed/replaced the cover when it was powered, which we frequently did. Think I’ve still got an original service manual somewhere. A quick Google shows some absurd prices - these were early predecessors of things like the Sony XC75/77 CCD cameras and used on some medical/ scientific kit I believe.
HTH
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 10:11 pm   #9
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Seventy7 View Post
Hi, Hoping this is in the right place

I've got a 1960s/70s Philips video camera, sold to me as a Television camera but I'm not sure if it was Television or not, if anyone knows? There's no numbers on it other than its serial number.
Are you sure that's the serial number? If there are two "serial numbers" on the type plate, the upper one is the commercial 12NC or SKU, which corresponds to the model number. The type plate seems to have two lines of text/numbers on it, and sure looks like a Philips type plate.
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 10:15 pm   #10
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Sorry, forgot to add these would be dated late 70’s - mid 80s
Pete
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 10:34 pm   #11
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Found the info, see attached.
All yours if you want it 77 ( coincidentally the ELA service information doc in the picture is dated 16/3/77)
P
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 10:47 pm   #12
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Pete's comment about LDH25 or 26 led me to find it in my files, I knew I had seen it before.

My notes say "Philips LDH26 from around 1980 onwards. For industrial or educational use. It had a 17mm tube with options for a vidicon, silicon diode, or newvicon tube." (Video Yearbook 500lines resolution).

The LDH25 of similar appearance is in the 1977 Video Yearbook. (400lines resolution)
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 11:24 pm   #13
19Seventy7
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

That was a lot of replies in a short amount of time!

Quote:
If the camera is generating syncs the bar should be stationary. The camera is a very
late tube type using a 2/3" vidicon so is probably prior to 1990. I had one but scrapped
it when the gun failed.
in 1988 I had an early Philips CCD mono camera (kit) which used small boards with SMDs.
The result with a macro lens was remarkable, and much smaller than a tube type.
Try removing the elaborate lens and use a basic "C" type if you have one.
That bar is stable, apart from that jitter of the very top, like a slow drawn scan line. That's interesting about the SMDs as I'd always assumed they were much newer technology, say the past 10 or 15 years. It's going to sound stupid but how is the lens removed? I can see that it can come off but I can't see any form of latches or buttons to release it, and it wont budge with some force applied, not that I want to be too brutal with it and break something.

Quote:
Hmm. Interesting!

You're right- its definitely a tubed camera. The style of the electronics looks late '70's. But there doesn't look to be enough electronics in there for a B/W camera from that era. I can't believe there is a mains power supply in there as well?

I wonder if it should plug into a companion unit which would have the power supply and the extra electronics?

What's on the end of the black cable coming out of the camera? What other connections are there apart from that DIN plug?

What makes you think it's philips- is there a logo on it?

Certainly a thorough search on the internet doesn't bring up anything like it!

Cheers
Nick
I thought 70s myself due to the fact that it's got some capacitors that I recognise from my Philips G8, though of course they can be replacements.

Maybe I should've mentioned that there's two other companion units. The mains supply, which powers the camera, and a box attached to the RF cable. Both the camera and the RF cable box connect to the mains supply box via 7 pin DIN plugs.

I've attached a photo below. (Red is the Mains cable, Green is to/from the camera, and Blue is the RF cable)

There's no other connections apart from those all mentioned, and the 9V adaptor socket on the mains supply box.

It's definitely Philips as it says so on the other side, I never bothered sending that as an image as it's plain otherwise.

Quote:
Looks like a Philips LDH25 or 26. We used these as early film camera “video assist” units. Very simple electronics, 1/2”( IIRC) vidicon tube for C-mount lens. Free running line and field oscillators; could be externally synced. LDH26 was the later improved version. Used to get quite a belt from the EHT if you removed/replaced the cover when it was powered, which we frequently did. Think I’ve still got an original service manual somewhere. A quick Google shows some absurd prices - these were early predecessors of things like the Sony XC75/77 CCD cameras and used on some medical/ scientific kit I believe.
That's some really interesting information, it's good to know what they were used for. I'm guessing if it's medical/scientific it should have fairly good results? Better than domestic at least. Thanks for the identification.

Quote:
Are you sure that's the serial number? If there are two "serial numbers" on the type plate, the upper one is the commercial 12NC or SKU, which corresponds to the model number. The type plate seems to have two lines of text/numbers on it, and sure looks like a Philips type plate.
There's a sticker which has been cut off slightly which says "(S?) ER No. 014620" and above that there's the number "8925 002 50401" There's no sign of a 12NC or SKU.

Quote:
Found the info, see attached.
All yours if you want it 77 ( coincidentally the ELA service information doc in the picture is dated 16/3/77)
P
I'd love to have the info if you no longer want them please. I'll send you a PM. Funny about the year/name as I don't really know why I chose to put the 7 on the end, yet it's coincided with a few things.

Edit: Didn't see beamcurrents post.

That handle sure looks useful! It's quite awkward trying to hold it properly without a handle. I'll have to keep an eye out for one!

That's interesting to know about the 400/500 line resolution difference, I wonder how much of an obvious difference it gave. Are these colour or B/W? It's been nice to find some more information on it and to truly find it's time period, though I can see how it'd be confused to be from the 60s

Thank you all for the help, it's really appreciated. Now to try and get it actually working now I know what I've got!

Thanks again
'77

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Old 17th Nov 2020, 11:32 pm   #14
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Amazing Brian, I’ve never seen the original shooting kit before. We used to get just the camera body in from Philips ( Purley Way I think) and then replace the DIN plug with a 7-pinXLR which was our standard “EVF” connector.
BTW 77, the slow rolling frame sync you mentioned will be almost certainly due to the free running timebases I described.
We would use a small DIY xtal SPG ( using the good old Ferranti ZNA134) if accurate sync was required.
Then there was the scary PSU/SPG/Mixer/DA system, again DIY’ed by a couple of us BBC tv engineers, that was designed to act as a sort of crude production centre for multi film camera shoots like concerts etc. which could record the rough-cut onto U- matic.
It worked. Sort-of.
P
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 11:44 pm   #15
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Quote:
BTW 77, the slow rolling frame sync you mentioned will be almost certainly due to the free running timebases I described..
I did wonder that when I read about them, then when beamcurrent mentioned the 500 lines, wondered if that's why it's visible as I'd imagine something like that wouldn't be otherwise with 625 lines of resolution.

Thanks
'77
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Old 17th Nov 2020, 11:56 pm   #16
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Last post before bed:
I’ve managed to remember all this other stuff from 40 years ago but forgot the fundamental point that the tubes were of course 2/3” Newvicons not 1/2” Vidicon as I stated earlier.

Pete ( supposed camera “expert” )
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Old 18th Nov 2020, 12:55 am   #17
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

All the tubed cameras I have seen warm up to a white raster that darkens down to reveal the image.
I have several cameras from that period that work to some extent.
In one of your photos there appears to be a hefty dent in the case.
There are a number of things that could go wrong with the tube if it has taken a hit.
I am not sure how the view finder comes off but once ir is removed the lens should just screw off if it is a "C" mount.
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Old 18th Nov 2020, 10:30 am   #18
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

A bit more about "Lines" to clear any confusion. Simplistically:-

The picture is made up of 625 horizontal scanning lines (or 405, 525 according to standard in use). Of these 625 lines 575 are visible ones with picture information in them, the other 50 are lost in the flyback period.

TV engineers refer to 400, 500 or whatever vertical lines of resolution. These are not "scan" lines as per the previous paragraph but the number of lines that can be seen (resolved) from a test card (test pattern) under ideal conditions.

This is a measure of the nebulous concept of how sharp the picture looks. There are electronic circuits that can visually improve the appearance of the picture called aperture correctors, but that is a story for another day.
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Old 19th Nov 2020, 11:59 am   #19
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

Did you verify that the type plate has only a single "real" serial number on it and not 2 numbers or an NC?
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Old 19th Nov 2020, 1:06 pm   #20
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Default Re: 1960s/70s Philips video camera

The Philips LHD25 camera came from the Philips ELA Division in Eindhoven around the
mid-1970s. We sometimes used these as CCTV cameras replacing the earlier Pye "Lynx" B/W camera.
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