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Old 19th Jul 2017, 4:42 pm   #1
John G8MWF
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Default Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

My Cossor 494AC has a lot of surface rust that really spoils the look of the set.
One of the restoration sites has a video of a chassis being restored very nicely with a product called Naval Jelly that appears to be a US product that is not available in the UK.

Is there an equivalent UK product that someone in the group has experience in using? Does it work well?

The other point that concerns me is if the 'restored' metal will stay rust free once this treatment, should it be available, has been applied?

Or . . . is there a better way of treating rust WITHOUT total disassembling the radio?

Kind regards


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Old 19th Jul 2017, 4:47 pm   #2
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Naval Jelly is a proprietary phosphoric acid based rust remover. I'm surprised you can't buy it in the UK now - I bought some many years ago in Halfords or somewhere without any problems.

I think Jenolite Rust Remover is pretty much the same stuff.

If you search the forum, there are lots of threads where people discuss using rust removing products.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 4:50 pm   #3
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

From having used it in the 1970s to treat rusty car bodywork, basically it's just phosphoric acid bound in a gelatinous form.

It removes surface rust, and - if left on for a long time - converts deeper rust to black Iron Phosphate.

BUT you need a way to wash it off after it's done its stuff, or it dries to a white powdery mess, which you definitely don't want getting into electronics.

[Phosphate-based treatments like "Kurust" and "Jenolite" suffer the same].

Traditional thing was to wash the treated surface off with plenty of water to remove the acid, then rinse with Methylated Soirits [the alcohol draws water out of any pits/scars in the surface] then apply your first coat of primer.

Don't leave 'treated' metal exposed - the very thin film of iron phosphate is porous and it'll corrode again at the first sign of dampness.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 4:51 pm   #4
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Naval Jelly is a proprietory phosphoric acid based rust remover. I'm surprised you can't buy it in the UK now - I bought some many years ago in Halfords or somewhere without any problems.
I tried the usual sources such as Amazon and eBay but they want huge postage from the USA!
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 4:53 pm   #5
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Halfords do sell their own product but I am not very happy using it on my radio unless somebody else has had positive results!!
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 5:01 pm   #6
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

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Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
From having used it in the 1970s to treat rusty car bodywork, basically it's just phosphoric acid bound in a gelatinous form.

It removes surface rust, and - if left on for a long time - converts deeper rust to black Iron Phosphate.

BUT you need a way to wash it off after it's done its stuff, or it dries to a white powdery mess, which you definitely don't want getting into electronics.

[Phosphate-based treatments like "Kurust" and "Jenolite" suffer the same].

Traditional thing was to wash the treated surface off with plenty of water to remove the acid, then rinse with Methylated Soirits [the alcohol draws water out of any pits/scars in the surface] then apply your first coat of primer.

Don't leave 'treated' metal exposed - the very thin film of iron phosphate is porous and it'll corrode again at the first sign of dampness.


So it would appear to be the same stuff with a different brand name.

The video I watched showed the person applying it with Q tips to small areas, avoiding IF cans and the like, then wiping it off with a damp cloth after 5 minutes.

What worried be was that the metal originally may have had a protective coating on which after treatment is now bare metal that will rust quickly without protection?
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 5:22 pm   #7
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

I have used Evaporust with great success. Probably only recommended if you have, or will have in future, plenty of items to de-rust, due to the cost. Although I bought a large container so smaller ones are going to be cheaper.

It is non-toxic and it's fine if you get it on your hands. You can soak the item but I am happy to put a small amount in a tray and keep brushing it on (consistency of water) until the rust is gone. No hardship while watching a film, or something. It can be kept and re-used but using a small amount keeps most of the container untouched. I then pour the 'used' stuff into a separate container and use that until it no longer works.

If you search 'Evaporust' on here you will see a pretty bad cap tester chassis that I used it on. Very impressive stuff.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 5:38 pm   #8
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

I have a bit of a rusty chassis in my McMicheal, I'm thinking about just leaving it though it's only surface rust and doesn't affect the function of the radio. I did read that naval jelly works very well though.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 6:09 pm   #9
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Fertan can be left on, its brown though. Its not acidic or otherwise corrosive.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 7:12 pm   #10
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Naval Jelly is a proprietary phosphoric acid based rust remover
And here was me thinking it was something different entirely
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 7:15 pm   #11
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

I was lucky enough to have access to a bead blasting cabinet for a while. That way you can strip a chassis down to base metal, and then prime and coat using whatever technique.

You do have to strip the chassis first. Or in my case - the car.

Although if rust coating is light, hammerite goes straight on.

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Old 19th Jul 2017, 7:51 pm   #12
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Re rusty surfaces to sheet metal; chassis and the like, I just rub them down with a brass wire brush to remove as much of the fine rust particles as I can - until the rust colour starts to disappear - then I wipe the area with an oily rag. The nasty rust colour disappears and the light oil coating prevents further rusting. Job done. You don't need rust killer products and the complications that they bring to the job.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 10:36 pm   #13
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Bilt Hamber Deox gel.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 11:18 pm   #14
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

The original navy jelly worked quickly and would take the skin off your fingers but, as with many watered down modern consumer products, the replacements are pretty ineffective.
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 11:33 pm   #15
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

A lot depends on how serious the rust is, but certainly, the treatments based on phosphoric acid can be quite agressive.

Something I've got in my cupboard, but have not yet tried, is molasses, i.e. the goopy syrupy stuff the Yanks like . Put "molasses for rust removal" in to Google and you get over a million hits. Seems like it is very slow and gentle (takes several days) and depends on various organic compounds complexing the rust. Buy it in any supermarket. Be sure to let us know if you try it

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Old 20th Jul 2017, 9:02 am   #16
John G8MWF
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Perhaps this link to the page that started me of on Navy Gel will help explain what I am up to -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dbANTNvavI

If this video is to be believed, and it looks good to me, then it is a slow process of applying a product like this one and wiping it off with a damp cloth after 10 minutes.
The other question I have is - can you leave it like that or do you HAVE to paint it?

I also like stevehertzs idea but I am not sure how clean it would look like after this process!
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 10:00 am   #17
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

The Bilt Hamber is not a phoshoric product and is sold as non toxic. Gets some good reviews and I have bought some myself.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 10:37 am   #18
John G8MWF
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

The Bilt Hamber Deox-Gel Rust Remover Gelled Corrosion Remover 1kg bottle - is beginning to look good except for the size and cost of the product.

Have you or anyone else actually used it yet WITHOUT dismantling the radio chassis first?
And, is it as easy to use as Navy Gel with a Q tip and damp cloth?

Cheers - John
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 11:37 am   #19
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

The chassis of this Pye 65A battery receiver will require some sort of rust remedy.

DFWB.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 12:17 pm   #20
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Default Re: Rust Removal - Naval Jelly?

Evaporust, before and after - small amount in a bowl and brushed on several times from the product in the bowl over the space of an hour until the rust was gone (chassis sat in the bowl to catch the product as it ran off the chassis).
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