Old Batteries - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

DAC10 Collector · 26th Jul 2017, 11:23 am

The Thornbury Museum Archaeological Research Group has uncovered a large number of zinc carbon dry batteries during a recent excavation near Bristol. They wish to find out a bit more about the background of these batteries, as shown in the attached photographs.

My initial thoughts are that these cells may have been manufactured in the 1940s (World War 2) due to the extensive use of pitch and plain cardboard.

These could possibly be divided up into three or four categories:

• Large 120 volt HT radio battery (A large number of single zinc carbon cells each slightly larger than an U12 battery assembled together with pitch were found)

• 9 volt grid bias battery formed using some of the above cells

• Multi cell LT radio battery (two groups each comprising at least 5 cells of approximately U2 size assembled together with pitch were found)

• Several torch batteries including a bicycle lamp battery (The ubiquitous brass terminal together with cells slightly larger than the standard U2 size suggests this)

Any further thoughts on the possible age, use and manufacturer of these cells will be welcome.

Many Thanks

Mike

emeritus · 26th Jul 2017, 1:20 pm

The standard Ever Ready Leclanché U2-type cells that used pitch as a sealant and a cardboard outer sleeve over the Zinc can, were available until replaced by the steel-cased "sealed" SP2-type in the early/mid 1970's. I used to get through a lot of the original "Blue" types for my battery tape recorder and never had any leak. I only switched to the more expensive sealed type when the old ones were no longer available.

paulsherwin · 26th Jul 2017, 1:43 pm

Yes, pretty standard zinc carbon cells as made until well into the 70s. It's very possible that these were wartime stocks, either stored underground and forgotten about or deliberately dumped when life expired or declared surplus. The archaeology of the site will be the best source of info. It's just possible there's a connection with Auxiliary Units.

bobskie · 26th Jul 2017, 2:00 pm

I dug up hundreds of these at a ww2 POW camp along with various valves and other bits. It was the camp dump and I found some pretty cool stuff the best of which was an Italian soldiers dog tag. I of course left behind a lot of the stuff like batteries because I can't keep everything, I did take the valves for display though. A very interesting site.

DAC10 Collector · 28th Jul 2017, 9:18 am

Many thanks for all your replies which certainly suggest some additional possibilities to be considered as part of the overall analysis as these batteries were found buried just outside the foundations of an abandoned villa located in a secluded wood.

These replies will be forwarded on to the Thornbury Museum Archaeological Research Group.

Mike

russell_w_b · 28th Jul 2017, 10:31 am

Might they have been U.S. supplied batteries, buried and put 'beyond use' as part of the Lend-Lease agreement post-war, as happened with other U.S. provided equipment?

paulsherwin · 28th Jul 2017, 10:44 am

I think the interesting question is how a large quantity of batteries came to be buried at that location.

What was the villa used for before it became derelict? Is there a wartime military or goverment connection?

There was certainly a time in the immediate postwar period where no infrastructure had been established to dispose of war surplus stuff, and large quantities were simply dumped, most famously down disused mineshafts but in many other places too. The manufacturers lobbied the government to do this, claiming that selling surplus stocks would depress prices and harm the economy. There was parliamentary criticism of the waste involved, and the practice had largely ended by 1950.

bobskie · 28th Jul 2017, 2:14 pm

That's exactly what would have happened at the location I was digging at, after the war ended and the camp closed they just dumped everything in a hole. There was evidence of some of it being set on fire too with many melted bottles. A huge waste of supplies.

Mad Mal · 29th Jul 2017, 6:39 pm

I wish I'd had the foresight to retrieve the Leclanche cells from the old Signal box at Merrington Lane , Spennymoor before it was demolished. They were still in use right up until the branch line closed (Beecham has a lot to answer for). There were around twenty or thirty of them banked in groups of six. all were glass bodied and had what i assume to be Black bakelite and tar caps to insulate the inner conductor from the ring outer connector.

AC/HL · 29th Jul 2017, 8:23 pm

I have one retrieved from an attic in an old building. The carbon rod is embedded in manganese dioxide in a porous inner pot, and the zinc rod just rests in a bulge in the glass jar. The black ring round the top is wax, to stop the electrolyte migrating out of the jar. They may have had lids to stop evaporation, mine doesn't.

26th Jul 2017, 11:23 am	#1
DAC10 Collector Tetrode Join Date: May 2012 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 55	Old Batteries The Thornbury Museum Archaeological Research Group has uncovered a large number of zinc carbon dry batteries during a recent excavation near Bristol. They wish to find out a bit more about the background of these batteries, as shown in the attached photographs. My initial thoughts are that these cells may have been manufactured in the 1940s (World War 2) due to the extensive use of pitch and plain cardboard. These could possibly be divided up into three or four categories: • Large 120 volt HT radio battery (A large number of single zinc carbon cells each slightly larger than an U12 battery assembled together with pitch were found) • 9 volt grid bias battery formed using some of the above cells • Multi cell LT radio battery (two groups each comprising at least 5 cells of approximately U2 size assembled together with pitch were found) • Several torch batteries including a bicycle lamp battery (The ubiquitous brass terminal together with cells slightly larger than the standard U2 size suggests this) Any further thoughts on the possible age, use and manufacturer of these cells will be welcome. Many Thanks Mike Attached Thumbnails

26th Jul 2017, 1:20 pm	#2
emeritus Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 5,345	Re: Old Batteries The standard Ever Ready Leclanché U2-type cells that used pitch as a sealant and a cardboard outer sleeve over the Zinc can, were available until replaced by the steel-cased "sealed" SP2-type in the early/mid 1970's. I used to get through a lot of the original "Blue" types for my battery tape recorder and never had any leak. I only switched to the more expensive sealed type when the old ones were no longer available. Last edited by emeritus; 26th Jul 2017 at 1:25 pm.

26th Jul 2017, 1:43 pm	#3
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,959	Re: Old Batteries Yes, pretty standard zinc carbon cells as made until well into the 70s. It's very possible that these were wartime stocks, either stored underground and forgotten about or deliberately dumped when life expired or declared surplus. The archaeology of the site will be the best source of info. It's just possible there's a connection with Auxiliary Units.

26th Jul 2017, 2:00 pm	#4
bobskie Hexode Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Falkirk, Stirling, UK. Posts: 336	Re: Old Batteries I dug up hundreds of these at a ww2 POW camp along with various valves and other bits. It was the camp dump and I found some pretty cool stuff the best of which was an Italian soldiers dog tag. I of course left behind a lot of the stuff like batteries because I can't keep everything, I did take the valves for display though. A very interesting site.

28th Jul 2017, 9:18 am	#5
DAC10 Collector Tetrode Join Date: May 2012 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 55	Re: Old Batteries Many thanks for all your replies which certainly suggest some additional possibilities to be considered as part of the overall analysis as these batteries were found buried just outside the foundations of an abandoned villa located in a secluded wood. These replies will be forwarded on to the Thornbury Museum Archaeological Research Group. Mike Last edited by DAC10 Collector; 28th Jul 2017 at 9:36 am. Reason: Additional information added

28th Jul 2017, 10:31 am	#6
russell_w_b Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK. Posts: 3,687	Re: Old Batteries Might they have been U.S. supplied batteries, buried and put 'beyond use' as part of the Lend-Lease agreement post-war, as happened with other U.S. provided equipment? __________________ Regds, Russell W. B. G4YLI.

28th Jul 2017, 10:44 am	#7
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,959	Re: Old Batteries I think the interesting question is how a large quantity of batteries came to be buried at that location. What was the villa used for before it became derelict? Is there a wartime military or goverment connection? There was certainly a time in the immediate postwar period where no infrastructure had been established to dispose of war surplus stuff, and large quantities were simply dumped, most famously down disused mineshafts but in many other places too. The manufacturers lobbied the government to do this, claiming that selling surplus stocks would depress prices and harm the economy. There was parliamentary criticism of the waste involved, and the practice had largely ended by 1950.

28th Jul 2017, 2:14 pm	#8
bobskie Hexode Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Falkirk, Stirling, UK. Posts: 336	Re: Old Batteries That's exactly what would have happened at the location I was digging at, after the war ended and the camp closed they just dumped everything in a hole. There was evidence of some of it being set on fire too with many melted bottles. A huge waste of supplies.

29th Jul 2017, 6:39 pm	#9
Mad Mal Tetrode Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Spennymoor, County Durham, UK. Posts: 69	Re: Old Batteries I wish I'd had the foresight to retrieve the Leclanche cells from the old Signal box at Merrington Lane , Spennymoor before it was demolished. They were still in use right up until the branch line closed (Beecham has a lot to answer for). There were around twenty or thirty of them banked in groups of six. all were glass bodied and had what i assume to be Black bakelite and tar caps to insulate the inner conductor from the ring outer connector.

29th Jul 2017, 8:23 pm	#10
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Old Batteries I have one retrieved from an attic in an old building. The carbon rod is embedded in manganese dioxide in a porous inner pot, and the zinc rod just rests in a bulge in the glass jar. The black ring round the top is wax, to stop the electrolyte migrating out of the jar. They may have had lids to stop evaporation, mine doesn't.