UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players

Notices

Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 10th Jul 2010, 3:42 pm   #141
neon indicator
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland.
Posts: 1,183
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

I suspect I'm using the wrong terminology being an engineer rather than a Musician. (I don't think being able to read music and edit Midi etc. qualifies as a musician).
[edit maybe "Resonant" is the correct term /me digs bigger pit]

Meanwhile I have an autoharp to fix and I don't know where all the felt pads go (I got it cheap as it had fallen to bits). I can't find a schematic (bama no good for this ). I suppose from the "Chords" you can work back as to what strings get "undamped".


Anyhow, it seems to me the player, guitar (inc material, construction, type of strings, bridge etc), pickup(s), PA and speaker are the important bits for Blues/Rock/Pop particular "sounds" not the mic/mixing/recording really.

Last edited by neon indicator; 10th Jul 2010 at 3:47 pm.
neon indicator is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2010, 9:09 pm   #142
veffreak
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 78
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Btw. there are even some bolt-on neck solid body guitars that have great sustain despite the myth of solid body guitars with set-neck being the winner here. If i had hot output single coils or standard humbuckers in my '62 vintage reissue strat, it would outrun the sustain of a very well constructed Les Paul copy i have - it all boils down to the wood of the neck and body and to how well they work together - which nobody can predict before it's actually put together. Also there are other things that contribute to the impression of the superior Les Paul sustain - strats also usually have a whammy bridge, that, depending on it's quality and weight, also kills the sustain slightly, as well as the straight construction of the neck head. It's not like Leo didn't understand the principles as well as Les Paul, it's just that Leo (at least as long as the strat is concerned) was after a guitar with integrated vibrato (which he for some reason called tremolo). I don't know why the Tele has a straight head though.
veffreak is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2010, 3:45 pm   #143
Valvepower
Octode
 
Valvepower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rayleigh near Southend-On-Sea, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,852
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Hi All,

My friend’s 1962 Strat with the original pickups had piles of sustain. I remember tweaking amps he used with this guitar, and found I had to reduce the value of the coupling capacitors to drop off the low-end, giving the overall effect of tightening up the sound, I did also change some of the values of the capacitors in the treble control and “bright” by-pass on the volume control to give a slightly brighter edge to the sound.

A good few years ago I had the chance to have a good look at the circuit for a Hawk Booster unit. This is the one as used by the late Rory Gallagher AC30 in the early 70’s to overdrive his VOX. From memory, it had a three-band cut and boost (+/-15dB) EQ at 150, 500 & 3KHz. The overall gain of the unit with the gain boost on was about 10-15dB, and with the gain boost off it was near unity. It also had a “bright boost switch” at something like 1.5K – I can’t remember by how much though, but I’d guess at something like 10dB. The IC used in the two-stage circuit was a MC4558 or similar bi-polar OP amp!

I bought the early 60’s Selmer Stadium guitar amplifier in the mammoth Wootton Bassett swap meet auction last Sunday. The plan is to restore this combo amp for my Son – well that’s my excuse to the Wife! This is a 1x12, 15-17 Watt combo using EL84’s and an EZ81 valve rectifier; the speaker is a 25-Watt Fane, which I think is the original speaker. It will be interesting to see how this amplifier sounds when it’s restored, as this is an archetypal early 60’s amp and speaker hopefully with that 60’s sound.

Terry.
Valvepower is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2010, 11:38 pm   #144
peetleetech
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kempton Park, Gauteng, South Africa.
Posts: 84
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

I have a "Uher Royal deLUX" with an "Akai" head stuck on. There were better, but few. Mine still works. I had contacts at the SABC and got twice used tape for free. I also worked in a radio shop, so that helped. It helps that the UHER is in a nice wooden cabinet so the missus views it a furniture.
peetleetech is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2010, 11:55 pm   #145
peetleetech
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kempton Park, Gauteng, South Africa.
Posts: 84
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Tape is mentioned, i know that this became a big issue later in Cassetes. As far as i know it was never an issue before with reel to reel. It was only when things like chrome tape and some others I am remembering that individual bias selection was needed to compensate.
peetleetech is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2010, 12:52 am   #146
rayr0683
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.
Posts: 40
Question Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Hi,

What kind of AKAI head do you have mounted on the UHER?? IS it an AKAI GX Head?? Or maybe the AKAI Cross Field Head? Thanks, Ray





Quote:
Originally Posted by peetleetech View Post
I have a "Uher Royal deLUX" with an "Akai" head stuck on. There were better, but few. Mine still works. I had contacts at the SABC and got twice used tape for free. I also worked in a radio shop, so that helped. It helps that the UHER is in a nice wooden cabinet so the missus views it a furniture.
rayr0683 is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2010, 2:08 pm   #147
shlumaan
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stoke Newington, London.
Posts: 86
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Hello everyone, long & tough discussion, phew... if you don't mind me butting in...
As a musician I've been long daydreaming on hearing my voice and guitar through an old machine rather than the much hated cold digital set up which I am fed up with at the moment. My fantasy is that I'd be a better singer/musician through an old tape. So I have gotten myself a TEAC A-3440 (on its way). My plan is to record analogue and once the sound is imprinted, style 60s, I can then transfer to my solid Cubase to work digitally with the original tape recording. But I'm wondering if something will get lost on the conversion through my cheap audio interface onto the computer. Assuming there is such a thing as 'pure 60s sound', should recording be done on analogue including editing from start to finish? I guess the Beatles couldn't edit it any other way, could they?
shlumaan is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 2:15 am   #148
TIMTAPE
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Shlumaan,

Pardon my question but what effects, if any, are you using on your voice and guitar recordings now? What skills level do you have.

Effects such as EQ, compression/limiting and reverb were used extensively on pro recordings for at least the last 60 years. As per the above discussion, you shouldnt assume that the tape itself was the key to "the 60's sound" (if there was such a thing anyway).

Pro recordings used pro equipment and perhaps more importantly skilled recording engineers and producers. It's the same today.

Cheers Tim
TIMTAPE is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 3:01 pm   #149
shlumaan
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stoke Newington, London.
Posts: 86
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Tim hi, please call me Shlomi. Your question is totally relevant. I'm a musician, a music therapist and a music teacher. I've been composing my own music and recording in an amatuer way on cubase (please you are welcome to check my myspace.com/shlumaan) working also with eq, reverb and a little bit of compression. I've been working alongside many professional sound engineers and have learnt some stuff over the years, still learning.

My problem has always been with the basic digital recording before adding stuff on top of it. I look at it as a well written song, before you add the violins, the brass or whatever, sometimes to cover up a song that is just not doing it in the first place. In the same way, I can be satisfied with my own singing/playing real-time, but the recording sounds much more true (before the make-up) on a tape recording than in digital.

But back to my question: when converting from analogue to digital, do I end up again doing the same thing I'm trying to avoid, i.e. to record digitally? is the analogue warmth at risk of being lost once transferred on to digital via sound card?
shlumaan is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2010, 3:29 pm   #150
TIMTAPE
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlumaan View Post
But back to my question: when converting from analogue to digital, do I end up again doing the same thing I'm trying to avoid, i.e. to record digitally? is the analogue warmth at risk of being lost once transferred on to digital via sound card?
Shlomi.
No, not at all.
A digital recorder, so long as it's not really cheap and nasty will faithfully reproduce whatever is recorded into it including the tape's "analog warmth".

But that's also the reason why it's the reverse of what you say. It's more likely to be the digital recording that sounds more "true before the makeup" than the analog recording. Analog tape tends to "add the makeup" whether one likes it or not. But it's your recording so of course it's up to how you want it to sound. Good luck!

Cheers Tim.
TIMTAPE is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2011, 1:26 pm   #151
Electric-Hair
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hobart Australia
Posts: 241
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

if you want the 60's sound then of course you do need the 60's gear? Don't forget the budget, the approach and many hands too? But what about on the listening side, the 60's hifi and speakers and the AM reciever, and the images too may I say? Not all 60's records are that good, its the most successful recordings whith the best tunes that are remembered? What amazes me is the results that they managed to acheive whith such gear, which leads me to believe that some of the top ones had something a little better up their sleeve. You can encode and decode digital on tape. Especially if its a multitrack you could transfer an analog track to digital for example. Tubes sound very nice indeed on tape. I think probably they would have been more concerned about builtup noise on the end product as opposed to hifi? I must say a cassette tape sounds a hell of a lot better than a digital version of it. But who bothers whith fiddly cassete tapes any more. Its miniturisation and price which has been the main element of audio developement over the years. Some early 70's albums are quite good too. Digital is just a different medium like oil painting is to photography?

how about that
Electric-Hair is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2011, 3:01 pm   #152
Skywave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chard, South Somerset, UK.
Posts: 7,457
Arrow Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Hair View Post
But who bothers with fiddly cassette tapes any more?
I do. In my car, I recently removed a radio / CD player & fitted a radio / cassette unit as a replacement. Why? Simply because the vast majority of the recorded music I like to listen to is already available on cassettes! Typically that from the '60's to the '80's. And I, for one, don't particularly find cassettes 'fiddly' either.

Al. / Skywave.
Skywave is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2011, 3:49 pm   #153
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,882
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Hi
Oil painting and photography Mr Hair? That's an interesting analogy!
One thing I have noticed is that convenience is now far more important than quality. The Sixties sound, if there is such a thing, resulted from either trying to get the most accurate reproduction of a classical concert in the home, or else getting the sound that a band wanted, be that close to a live performance or deliberately using the studio as an instrument in its own right, and this has led to many ground-breaking recordings that are still used as benchmarks today.
Now, due to technological advances, love them or hate them, very accurate recordings are the norm. And, ironically, that has led to a boom in 'lo-fi' bands and producers deliberately making recordings sound dated.
The growth of MP3, which we all agree is at best a compromise standard, has led music consumers, for want of a better description, to value convenience over fidelity. In a similar way, many young people are perfectly happy to watch a film on a laptop or even a mobile phone when far better platforms are easily and cheaply available. So we have come full circle!

Glyn

Last edited by Michael Maurice; 14th Jan 2011 at 8:39 pm. Reason: removed OT paragraph
Welsh Anorak is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2011, 8:42 pm   #154
Michael Maurice
Moderator
 
Michael Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,219
Default Re: Are 60's tape recorders an important part of the "60's sound?

Can we please stay ON TOPIC.

I've edited one post and removed two others that had nothing to do with 'the 60's sound'.
Michael Maurice is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:03 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.