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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 18th Apr 2010, 10:52 am   #41
TIMTAPE
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Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Yes that's the one Brian. My Magnette was a light green colour.
Great to find someone has one in their collection.

Tim
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 11:43 am   #42
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Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

That Stuzzi is more a work of art Brian. Hi Tim, yes I agree that the Dolby A issue is not crucial and especially to this thread [that's why I mentioned my Akai so I wouldn't be too OT] but you have set us a challenge nontheless. If I can actually find any hard or soft evidence I'll start a Dolby thread [with the Mods indulgence]. Cheers Dave W
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 3:04 pm   #43
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That's fine Dave. It wouldnt matter if I'm wrong on whether Seargent Pepper used Dolby. My essential point was that tape noise reduction systems were used professionally from some time in the mid 60's onwards with great success.

So far a quick internet search has uncovered one definite statement that Dolby was used on Pepper.

One Professor Shlomo Maital cites four examples of technological innovation used on Pepper as being:
1.The use of the new Dolby Noise Reduction
2. Automatic Double Tracking
3. Varispeed
4. A novel method for pressing LP's (unspecified).

I've just found another article which says that Abbey Road (the album) "was one of the first to use the Dolby Noise Reduction System". So there's a vote either way!

Cheers Tim

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Old 18th Apr 2010, 4:56 pm   #44
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Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

.
" at Strawberry Studios, Manchester, which was STUFFED with dbX."

Interesting. I wonder if that's the reason all of 10cc's records sounded rather 'numb'? A sort of 'lack of space' around everything.
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 5:04 pm   #45
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Interesting Andrew. You could be right! Tim, perhaps we should ask George Martin? There was a recent experiment at Abbey Road where contemporary musicians tried to reproduce the sound using the same gear. I will have a look at that. I note that nobody has claimed a Studer or BTR as their favourite so far!
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Old 19th Apr 2010, 6:43 am   #46
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Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

I personally prefer no noise reduction at all. I belong to a Naktalk Forum, and the engineer in the group has written white papers on DBX, and on properly setup machines, along with properly setup DBX, its a great combination. Since all my decks are fully calibrated, as is my DBX sections, I get great recordings, with no breathing affects at all. I choose not to use the DBX, because then I have to remember which tapes were done with DBX, and play them back the same way. Or If I lend them out, the other person must have a DBX and deck in proper order. So, its just easiest not to use it. I dont mind a slight hiss, the ears get used to it. I was just making the point, that these anal Nak guru's choose DBX over Dolby, especially since all their decks are properly calibrated to begin with. And so are mine. I get great results with DBX, again, but choose to use no Noise Reduction. Ray
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Old 19th Apr 2010, 7:51 am   #47
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Ray,
In deciding whether to use Noise Reduction, and which type, one would normally take account of the demands of the programme itself.

A rock performance that's loud from beginning to end doesnt demand much of the recorder's dynamic range. But a classical track that has very quiet as well as very loud sections will probably sound terrible on that same recorder. Hissy in the quiet sections and distorted in the loud bits. The latter case would be an obvious candidate for Noise Reduction.

For many years I recorded live location lectures to cassette and always used both Dolby B and a limiter. Even with Dolby B it was still possible for a passionate orator to create serious "overs" and so the limiter was needed as well as the Dolby. Without those two expedients I would have had hissy and distorted recordings, plus, as time went on, annoying print-through echoes on the very thin cassette tape.

As with music so with speech. Some people speak in a drab monotone and never raise their voice or lower it. Others have a very "dramatic" presentation. The live recording engineer has to be prepared for all types!

Cheers Tim
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Old 19th Apr 2010, 3:37 pm   #48
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Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Must admit, I wouldnt use DBX, Dolby A, B, C, SR, or HX as the machines I use have a sig to noise around the 65dB, you need to crank up the sound very high to hear the hiss on these machines.

just taken my latest machine, the Studer A820 which has just made its way right at the top of my favorite list
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Old 19th Apr 2010, 10:28 pm   #49
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Same way I feel. My machines are just like yours, You'd really have to CRANK em up to hear the hiss. So, I can tune anything like that out, since its really not audible. Almost the same as playing Vinyl....you can tune out the slight hiss type sound you hear of the stylus, even on a Top of the Line Cartridge.....because the music is just so worth it!!! Ray
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 12:41 am   #50
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If you're only making tape copies of a commercial production, such as a vinyl record, yes you can get away with poorer signal to noise because the compression/limiting of the dynamics has already been done for you. I was talking about tape recording live, where there's no such help.

Cheers Tim
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 7:57 am   #51
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Many years ago, I recorded three friends singing and playing guitar on my then new Revox A77 ΒΌ track Dolby recorder.

The mics were not professional types, the Dolby was on, and the recording was very very good.

I recently dug out the tape and replayed it on the same machine to digitize it and it sounded as fresh and lively as it did when I recorded it.
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 8:24 am   #52
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And so I should think - decent system, properly applied, decent machine. The A77 was commonly regarded in professional circles as sounding better than it had any right to at the price - and the incorporation of Dolby forced Studer to address one of the few weak points of the electronics, namely the impedances around the tape monitor switch.

Good show!
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 8:50 am   #53
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Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Hi,

I have a rather small collection of machines, in number if not size.

My favourite is this one. Fifteen years ago, a clearout where I worked threatened it with ending up in a skip if nobody else wanted it. I was the only person interested. I even managed to locate and retrieve the service manual, inside which was the factory test sheet.

Click image for larger version

Name:	LR-2000_01.jpg
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ID:	34708 Click image for larger version

Name:	LR-2000_02.jpg
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Size:	88.2 KB
ID:	34709

It's a Leevers-Rich Proline 2000, 1/4" half-track stereo, 7.5/15ips. The test sheet is dated 19/9/79.

At the moment it's more a device for turning SP tapes into LP than anything. There is something very wrong with the tape-tension control circuitry. I'll get around to it eventually; at least I acquired a tape-tension gauge fairly recently so I'm running out of excuses for ignoring it...

Cheers, Kat
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 9:10 am   #54
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Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

The biggest problem with the Studers, Levers Rich's of this world is their physical size.

My wife is not exactly happy about the A77 and B77 that are in our house, but as I had the house and recorders before I met her.....................

Unless you are on your own ie not married or living with someone, or you have a huge house, collecting these machines is not very practical.

Up to a year ago, the computer system and a filing cabinet were in our dining room, whilst copying tapes, a Revox A700 stood on top of the filing cabinet. My wife said it couldn't stay there. I tried to argue that it was a thing ob beauty but she wouldn't have it! So after the copying was done, it went back to the workshop.
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 10:55 am   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat Manton View Post
Hi,
There is something very wrong with the tape-tension control circuitry. I'll get around to it eventually; at least I acquired a tape-tension gauge fairly recently so I'm running out of excuses for ignoring it...

Cheers, Kat
The Leevers Rich (Which they never made) has an issue with the crystal lock of the two capstan motors, but this unusual machine also has a odd tension system, it does not have tension sensors, instead, it calculates the rotating speeds of the left and right reel hub against the counter and then calculates the required tension.
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 11:00 am   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maurice View Post

Unless you are on your own ie not married or living with someone, or you have a huge house, collecting these machines is not very practical.

Can you tell if I am single?

http://www.vintagerecorders.co.uk/se...tuder_a820.jpg
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 11:32 am   #57
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Default Re: Favorite of my open reel decks???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat Manton View Post
Hi,

I have a rather small collection of machines, in number if not size.

My favourite is this one. Fifteen years ago, a clearout where I worked threatened it with ending up in a skip if nobody else wanted it. I was the only person interested. I even managed to locate and retrieve the service manual, inside which was the factory test sheet.

Attachment 34708 Attachment 34709

It's a Leevers-Rich Proline 2000, 1/4" half-track stereo, 7.5/15ips. The test sheet is dated 19/9/79.

At the moment it's more a device for turning SP tapes into LP than anything. There is something very wrong with the tape-tension control circuitry. I'll get around to it eventually; at least I acquired a tape-tension gauge fairly recently so I'm running out of excuses for ignoring it...

Cheers, Kat
Kat,

You are so, SO lucky! Oh well, back to my 4000D.........

Cheers,

Roger.
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 11:52 am   #58
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Hi,

Quote:
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The Leevers Rich (Which they never made) [...]
I know very little about it, TBH. I just couldn't let it be scrapped. I think it's a Teknik SM2 in disguise; it's referred to as "The SM2" in one or two places in the manual. The tension servo is particularly interesting, though to set it up I think I'll have to work out what the "PS (programming switch) Clip" and "NR (numerical readout) Clip" referred to in the manual consist of. (I know where to connect them and how they're used in the set-up procedure.)

I'll start a thread when I can get to it again and work on it, it's buried at the back of the "spacious dining/kitchen" (as it was described, before we moved in...)

Cheers, Kat
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 12:34 pm   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMTAPE View Post
So far a quick internet search has uncovered one definite statement that Dolby was used on Pepper.

One Professor Shlomo Maital cites four examples of technological innovation used on Pepper as being:
1.The use of the new Dolby Noise Reduction
2. Automatic Double Tracking
3. Varispeed
4. A novel method for pressing LP's (unspecified).
Cheers Tim
At the risk of going OT, Dolby was never used on any Beatles multitrack masters. You just have to listen to the hiss on the opening of the original CD of Abbey Road to know that it wasn't used there! Dolby A was used on the 2 track safety master of sgt pepper but definitely not on the multis. The 1/4" 4 track system in use allowed pretty good bouncing between 2 and 3 generations without hiss becoming a problem.

I have the Recording The Beatles book which is every Anorak's dream with regard to the technology used in recording every track. For reference, the big leaps forward used on Pepper were:

Addition of tom and hi-hat microphones
Transition to C12 on bass
Transition to U67 on guitar and piano
Introduction of Direct Injection
Introduction of phasing, flanging and chorusing
Heavy use of the RS127 Presence Box
Use of UTC equaliser

Paul.
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 12:37 pm   #60
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Can you tell if I am single?
The beer bottle without a coaster under it is the dead giveaway

For me, my favourites are my 2 B77s and my Akai 1710. I've also got a Sony TC-377 but its never really done much for me. I am hoping to add an A77 and a PR99 to the family soon though

Paul

Last edited by paolo; 20th Apr 2010 at 12:49 pm.
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