Dimensions of modern batteries. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Radio_Dave · 10th Nov 2006, 1:52 pm

Hi,

I've just spent ages getting this radio working and clean but I've just discovered that I can't get the back on because the two PP9's are in the way!

Am I using the right ones or have PP9's got bigger

Thanks
David

Paul_RK · 10th Nov 2006, 1:58 pm

They do indeed seem to be growing, which is rather a shame to put it mildly. I've been using a lately arrived RP82 Herald with an old metal-cased Panasonic PP9, but as that was starting to show its age I decided to try the effect of a new plastic one and it won't go in

They sit readily enough in Sovereigns and proper Heralds, but designing the Democrat was something of a shoehorning job to start with and presumably the tolerances are pretty tight

Paul

EDIT: Seems from some rough measurements I've just taken that it's not a case of outright growth so much as of dimensional redistribution

Very old cardboard Ever Ready PP9: 80 x 62 x 46.5mm.
Dead Ever Ready PP9 in metal casing, red livery: 75 x 62.5 x 48.5mm.
New plastic Panasonic PP9: 76 x 63.5 x 49.5mm...

Radio_Dave · 10th Nov 2006, 2:54 pm

Thanks for the reply Paul.

Ironically it's the width that is preventing the back from fitting. At 62mm wide my Eveready Silver batteries seem to be on the small side, compaired to your measurements

At a rough guess the batteries need to be around 58mm wide to get the back to fit

Thanks
David

GJR 11L · 10th Nov 2006, 3:07 pm

Had the same problem myself with the Ranger RP70, I fitted a fresh Silver Ever Ready to that a couple of years ago and, when it finally died earlier this year, I had to use a corkscrew to haul it out. Presumably just because of the expansion that had taken place during use and the plastic case not shrinking back afterwards?
Like the mug that I am, the set had another one (Split New, Panasonic brand) fitted and although that battery is still perfectly healthy (it's a set I hardly use) it's already become too big to drop out when the set's bottom is removed!

The lantern batteries for the R707 have definitely grown too, the rear door of the Roberts is bulging a little more than when its batteries were fitted, yet they still give every indication that they're ok when tested with an equivalent load. They were slightly too big when they were fresh, growth is roughly 0.03" on the width, height unaffected.

So it's not just a problem that affects sets where the batteries are new! Very odd.

Paul_RK · 10th Nov 2006, 3:08 pm

Hmm... could this be why I've not much used a Democrat for a while? I just retrieved the nearest one, and... well, the red Ever Ready batteries will go in and the back will close, but they're darn snug, and I now know why one of my Democrats has a big finger-shaped hole on the left of its loudspeaker cone

The old cardboard battery won't even consider fitting on the left hand side, on account of its height: perhaps it pre-dates the Democrat and PP9s had already shrunk by 1967? And the plastic Panasonics just won't go in the set: the left-hand one stops half way when it meets the amplifier board's spacing washer, while on the right the IF screening can gets in the way

Paul

batterymaker1 · 10th Nov 2006, 3:13 pm

Bear in mind on those cardboard batteries--inside is a stack of 1.5 volt MiniMax wafers, sealed in wax. If given a chance, they will SWELL....

Paul_RK · 10th Nov 2006, 3:33 pm

Yes - my measurements were of the cardboard casing, deliberately avoiding taking into account the various bulges. I don't think the height can have increased that much... could be wrong, though.

radiogammon · 10th Nov 2006, 4:23 pm

The PP9's aren't the only ones to get bigger. I have noticed recently that AA batteries are swelling. Several of the coat size trannies which use 4xAA batteries will no longer take them or the backs won't go on. With others, the battery tubes are too narrow and they won't fit. I recently found some cheapie batteries in a market which fit, and when I measured them, they were about 2mm less in diameter. I wonder if the problem is with all the cladding they now add to try and stop leakages.

Radio_Dave · 10th Nov 2006, 4:24 pm

Well I'm not going to let this little problem stop me... I'll make some!

.

I've, just, resized a scan of an old PP9. When made up it will measure 75mm x 60mm x 48mm.

I've also found that new PP9's come apart easily! All I have to do is file some material off around the piece where the terminals are and fit it into my cardboard copy... but I'll finish it tommorrow now

David

Darren-UK · 10th Nov 2006, 5:23 pm

I've had the same trouble with a couple of Mini Heralds whilst trying to use PP7s from Maplins. I ended up altering the little wooden retainer pieces inside the radio(s). Oddly, this problem only seems to arise with Hacker radios, never Roberts etc.

Colin · 10th Nov 2006, 9:11 pm

I've done the same thing. It's easier to 'pop' the wooden retainer off and re-glue it, a touch of matt black paint and it's sorted...

10th Nov 2006, 1:52 pm	#1
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Dimensions of modern batteries. Hi, I've just spent ages getting this radio working and clean but I've just discovered that I can't get the back on because the two PP9's are in the way! Am I using the right ones or have PP9's got bigger Thanks David

10th Nov 2006, 1:58 pm	#2
Paul_RK Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 4,255	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? They do indeed seem to be growing, which is rather a shame to put it mildly. I've been using a lately arrived RP82 Herald with an old metal-cased Panasonic PP9, but as that was starting to show its age I decided to try the effect of a new plastic one and it won't go in They sit readily enough in Sovereigns and proper Heralds, but designing the Democrat was something of a shoehorning job to start with and presumably the tolerances are pretty tight Paul EDIT: Seems from some rough measurements I've just taken that it's not a case of outright growth so much as of dimensional redistribution Very old cardboard Ever Ready PP9: 80 x 62 x 46.5mm. Dead Ever Ready PP9 in metal casing, red livery: 75 x 62.5 x 48.5mm. New plastic Panasonic PP9: 76 x 63.5 x 49.5mm... Last edited by Paul_RK; 10th Nov 2006 at 2:19 pm.

10th Nov 2006, 2:54 pm	#3
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? Thanks for the reply Paul. Ironically it's the width that is preventing the back from fitting. At 62mm wide my Eveready Silver batteries seem to be on the small side, compaired to your measurements At a rough guess the batteries need to be around 58mm wide to get the back to fit Thanks David

10th Nov 2006, 3:07 pm	#4
GJR 11L Heptode Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ellington, Northumberland, UK. Posts: 815	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? Had the same problem myself with the Ranger RP70, I fitted a fresh Silver Ever Ready to that a couple of years ago and, when it finally died earlier this year, I had to use a corkscrew to haul it out. Presumably just because of the expansion that had taken place during use and the plastic case not shrinking back afterwards? Like the mug that I am, the set had another one (Split New, Panasonic brand) fitted and although that battery is still perfectly healthy (it's a set I hardly use) it's already become too big to drop out when the set's bottom is removed! The lantern batteries for the R707 have definitely grown too, the rear door of the Roberts is bulging a little more than when its batteries were fitted, yet they still give every indication that they're ok when tested with an equivalent load. They were slightly too big when they were fresh, growth is roughly 0.03" on the width, height unaffected. So it's not just a problem that affects sets where the batteries are new! Very odd. __________________ John.

10th Nov 2006, 3:08 pm	#5
Paul_RK Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 4,255	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? Hmm... could this be why I've not much used a Democrat for a while? I just retrieved the nearest one, and... well, the red Ever Ready batteries will go in and the back will close, but they're darn snug, and I now know why one of my Democrats has a big finger-shaped hole on the left of its loudspeaker cone The old cardboard battery won't even consider fitting on the left hand side, on account of its height: perhaps it pre-dates the Democrat and PP9s had already shrunk by 1967? And the plastic Panasonics just won't go in the set: the left-hand one stops half way when it meets the amplifier board's spacing washer, while on the right the IF screening can gets in the way Paul

10th Nov 2006, 3:13 pm	#6
batterymaker1 Heptode Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. Posts: 674	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? Bear in mind on those cardboard batteries--inside is a stack of 1.5 volt MiniMax wafers, sealed in wax. If given a chance, they will SWELL....

10th Nov 2006, 3:33 pm	#7
Paul_RK Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 4,255	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? Yes - my measurements were of the cardboard casing, deliberately avoiding taking into account the various bulges. I don't think the height can have increased that much... could be wrong, though.

10th Nov 2006, 4:23 pm	#8
radiogammon Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: County Down, Northern Ireland, UK. Posts: 275	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? The PP9's aren't the only ones to get bigger. I have noticed recently that AA batteries are swelling. Several of the coat size trannies which use 4xAA batteries will no longer take them or the backs won't go on. With others, the battery tubes are too narrow and they won't fit. I recently found some cheapie batteries in a market which fit, and when I measured them, they were about 2mm less in diameter. I wonder if the problem is with all the cladding they now add to try and stop leakages.

10th Nov 2006, 4:24 pm	#9
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? Well I'm not going to let this little problem stop me... I'll make some! . I've, just, resized a scan of an old PP9. When made up it will measure 75mm x 60mm x 48mm. I've also found that new PP9's come apart easily! All I have to do is file some material off around the piece where the terminals are and fit it into my cardboard copy... but I'll finish it tommorrow now David Last edited by Darren-UK; 2nd Aug 2007 at 2:55 pm. Reason: Removed reference to non-existent image.

10th Nov 2006, 5:23 pm	#10
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? I've had the same trouble with a couple of Mini Heralds whilst trying to use PP7s from Maplins. I ended up altering the little wooden retainer pieces inside the radio(s). Oddly, this problem only seems to arise with Hacker radios, never Roberts etc.

10th Nov 2006, 9:11 pm	#11
Colin Heptode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ilkley, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 656	Re: Hacker RP34 Batteries? I've done the same thing. It's easier to 'pop' the wooden retainer off and re-glue it, a touch of matt black paint and it's sorted...