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Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

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Old 7th Dec 2018, 8:38 pm   #21
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

There were all sorts of things considered acceptable in the past which simply aren't any more, and this typical example of ham-bodgery is certainly one of them!
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 8:59 pm   #22
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

Andy,

and I never quite understood why the DF system was "useless". It suggest rather that the users of the set were lacking the competence to use the system offered to them.

Richard
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 9:01 pm   #23
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

Hi Gents, one of the 1155 collectors in Cumbria has managed to get this section working and displaying on a meter with a simple, homemade D/F aerial.

Ed
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 11:27 pm   #24
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

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Originally Posted by trh01uk View Post
and I never quite understood why the DF system was "useless". It suggest rather that the users of the set were lacking the competence to use the system offered to them.
Well said!

Andy
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 11:49 pm   #25
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

The DF circuitry was both innovative and had an excellent effectiveness/complexity intersect- it's a shame that users weren't more appreciative of its presence in the past. As mentioned, the set's pluggery lends itself to external PSU/AF output configuration anyway, and leaving the DF circuitry in would have lent an extra MW/LW DX aspect to operation apart from the historic interest aspect.

I guess we're back to the difference between a time of plenty and a time of rare historical significance again, though.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 12:22 am   #26
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

This is one of the best explanations re the R1155 geometry that I have come across. It acknowledges that the DF circuitry was for another place and another time. As far as I can see, the post war emphasis would be on getting a decent communications receiver for a minimum outlay so everything perceived as irrelevant, was in the way and an unnecessary load on the PSU! In the context of the floating negative chassis etc the less circuitry to deal with the better! It isn't an easy set to work on [in some ways] as I'm told but eventually a previous thread on here pointed out that the expected operational life might be as low as 6 weeks...so ease of servicing-sadly-was not a factor!

I hope that "sadly" is appropriate here. It's very common to say that someone "sadly died" these days but I think it really jars! You don't know whether they were sad or not! The sad emotion is yours-which is why there should be a pause. Difficult to grasp I know but useful if you can't come up with anything else. It's a bit like apparently intelligent young people at University saying "LIKE" in every sentence because it's a multiple term like "Innit" ie didn't I /Isn't It /Wouldn't I ..it goes on !" When all that disappears it might be progress. Restricted code languages have a purpose but they don't help in the end. The Cockney East Enders thing is "I went down the Pub didn't I ?" Easily disassembled by " I don't know-did you? "

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Old 8th Dec 2018, 2:00 am   #27
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

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Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
There were all sorts of things considered acceptable in the past which simply
aren't any more, and this typical example of ham-bodgery is certainly one of them!
Rather a harsh criticism of what was a perfectly good way of using the 1155 at the time, also as regards the DF circuits they were not needed by radio amateurs then, I don't think it was lacking the competence to use them.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 2:11 am   #28
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and I never quite understood why the DF system was "useless". It suggest rather that the users of the set were lacking the competence to use the system offered to them.
Please enlighten me as to what these incompetents could have done with the DF system, buy a Lancaster bomber to go with it!.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 10:13 am   #29
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

The issue is that removing the entire DF circuitry is simply not necessary. To reduce the load on the PSU just unplug the three DF valves. Building an external PSU is easier than shoe-horning one into a chassis not designed for one, and adding an audio amplifier to this unit is easy, as is a loudspeaker.

You don't need a Lancaster to demonstrate the DF functionality, it works perfectly well on the ground!

I have a suspicion that a lot of these popular modifications (the WS19 was another candidate) were the result of magazine editors needing to fill their pages with a lengthy article rather than just 'plug your PSU into connector x and switch on'.

Andy
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 10:26 am   #30
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

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Please enlighten me as to what these incompetents could have done with the DF system, buy a Lancaster bomber to go with it!.
Well the obvious thing you can do with a DF system is to tell what direction signals are arriving from. That was originally used in a plane, once several fixes on known stations had been taken, to work out a rough position of the plane itself, by placing angles of arrival on to a map.

The usefulness of knowing angles of arrival of signals to amateurs will obvious vary. For those who simply using radio as a substitute for a telephone, i.e. as a cheap means of communications (which did make some sense in the 40s, 50s and 60s!) - then its probably of no interest. For those interested in propagation and optimising of aerials etc, I would have thought this to be of great interest.

And the DF system is not something that's hard to set up. The original 2 needle meters are still about these days (and presumably back then would have been around in abundance). The DF loops themselves do exist - but like so many things are now rare and expensive. Modern replicas are easy to make and unlike many HF aerials don't demand loads of space. I presume the original DF loops are now rare because amateurs who bought surplus back in the 40s, 50s and 60s turned their noses up at " useless aerial"!


Richard
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 11:39 am   #31
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

My R1155N worked extremely well in DF mode using an original loop and twin needle meter with amazing signal strength when the loop was matched.

I put a picture of it working with a bright magic eye on here some years ago but can’t find it now.

I know of several others who used the system with a home made loop.

Jim

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Old 8th Dec 2018, 12:30 pm   #32
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

Quote:
Originally Posted by trh01uk View Post
Well the obvious thing you can do with a DF system is to tell what direction signals are arriving from. That was originally used in a plane, once several fixes on known stations had been taken, to work out a rough position of the plane itself, by placing angles of arrival on to a map.

The usefulness of knowing angles of arrival of signals to amateurs will obvious vary. For those who simply using radio as a substitute for a telephone, i.e. as a cheap means of communications (which did make some sense in the 40s, 50s and 60s!) - then its probably of no interest. For those interested in propagation and optimising of aerials etc, I would have thought this to be of great interest.

And the DF system is not something that's hard to set up. The original 2 needle meters are still about these days (and presumably back then would have been around in abundance). The DF loops themselves do exist - but like so many things are now rare and expensive. Modern replicas are easy to make and unlike many HF aerials don't demand loads of space. I presume the original DF loops are now rare because amateurs who bought surplus back in the 40s, 50s and 60s turned their noses up at " useless aerial"!
I have recently acquired and restored two R1155s, in both of which, fortunately, the previous owners had not ripped out the "useless" DF sections, though the valves were long gone. The most satisfying part of the restoration, for me, was to get the DF working again. I made a simple DF aerial, and the results are very satisfactory. It gives me a feeling of humility and appreciation every time I run one of the sets, thinking of the courage and bravery of the men who risked their lives night after night, dependent on that "useless" DF section for finding their way home.

By the way, being reluctant to shell out the rather exorbitant-seeming prices for a VR102 dual triode for the DF section, I found that a 6SN7 and a home-build octal-octal adapter does the job quite satisfactorily.

Chris
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 2:37 pm   #33
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

Back then 1155s were commonly available just about anywhere in the Country in all conditions from battered to brand new in transit crates. Meters less so, but I don't recall the loops being commonly advertised.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 3:52 pm   #34
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

I imagine it was a combination of the loop aerials being scrapped with the aircraft whereas the Receivers and Transmitters and other easy to remove units were saved, combined with the aerials being reliable passive items so not many were held as spares in the stores.

Andy
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 8:22 pm   #35
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

Hi Gents, seeing Chris's comments ref the VR102 and a 6SN7 sub with base change, does anyone know if there is a more modern valve that is a more exact equivalent than the 6SN7 where, if miniature, an adaptor base could be made up.

Ed
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 8:44 pm   #36
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

ECC82 is the nearest B9A equivalent to the 6SN7. As with all substitutions you may need to tweak the bias a bit but to be honest pretty much any medium-gain double-triode will work just fine in such a non-critical application (despite what the hi-fi purists will try and tell you)
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 12:45 am   #37
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

The VR102 is an odd beast with its relatively high 1.3A heater current, presumably necessary to generate sufficient emission to decisively drive the L/R meter needles, the 6SN7 has quite a high 0.6A heater current. As well as the ECC82, the 6/30L2 and 2C51 double triodes could also be worth trying, as valves with less familiar codes not fitting Pro-electron sequencing may be less likely to attract mad prices! There are also a few ECC82-type double triodes with fairly high heater current and low anode impedance from ex-Eastern Bloc sources.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 8:42 pm   #38
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

Thanks Gents, I'll have a play with those types later

Ed
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 12:05 am   #39
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

I do understand the pleasure and satisfaction of restoring an 1155 to pristine condition after all thats what this hobby is all about preserving such items hopefully for future generations to enjoy.Having said that i still think the incompetence reference was undeserved. Graham.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 4:14 pm   #40
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Default Re: R1155 Power supply question

I think I showed competence when I modified my R1155 at the age of 15. I could afford no better receiver then, but the bandwidth was much too wide for CW on the amateur bands. DF valve positions became a q-multiplier to provide narrow band single-signal reception, and a 6V6 audio amplifier. To give full break-in working I modified the bias arrangements for muting by back-contact on key-up. A scrapped domestic wireless provided many parts. I passed the morse test, RAE, and had my licence at 17.

Now I'm 75 I don't worry what people might say about me.
73, Andrew
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