UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Amateur and Military Radio

Notices

Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 14th Feb 2024, 6:07 pm   #1
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 14,015
Default The "Zepp" or "Zeppelin" antenna.

Yes, it's vintage, has been around in various forms for near-on a century.

Basically, a half-wave radiating element, end-fed by a quarter-wave (or multiples thereof) of open wire 'ladder line', but it has spawned other derivatives [which will not be considered].

Les Moxon, in his "HF Antennas for all Locations" book criticises it; he says 'it should not work but sometimes does'.

He analogizes the quarter-wave of open-wire feeder as equivalent to a parallel-tuned circuit with one side connected to the end-fed half-wave dipole [see B in the first image] and then postulates that because there is 'nothing' connected to the other end of the tuned-circuit there is nowhere for any current to go - so he says the circuit is 'incomplete' and it can't work.

The ARRL has a different view in their late-sixties Antenna Handbook; they introduce the idea of a full-wave dipole fed at 1/4-wave from one end [an antenna arrangement that definitely _does_ work!], then they fold the 1/4-wave part back along its other-half so it becomes a transmission-line [see second attachment].

So, which is correct?

The "Slim Jim" and "J" antennas used on VHF have related heritage.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	zepp-1.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	41.6 KB
ID:	292951   Click image for larger version

Name:	xepp-3.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	44.4 KB
ID:	292952  
__________________
I'm the Operator of my Pocket Calculator. -Kraftwerk.

Last edited by G6Tanuki; 14th Feb 2024 at 6:12 pm.
G6Tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2024, 7:51 pm   #2
Keith956
Heptode
 
Keith956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 740
Default Re: The "Zepp" or "Zeppelin" antenna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Basically, a half-wave radiating element, end-fed by a quarter-wave (or multiples thereof) of open wire 'ladder line'
A 'Stairway to Heaven' then
Keith956 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2024, 7:56 pm   #3
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 14,015
Default Re: The "Zepp" or "Zeppelin" antenna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith956 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Basically, a half-wave radiating element, end-fed by a quarter-wave (or multiples thereof) of open wire 'ladder line'
A 'Stairway to Heaven' then
I see what you did there.
__________________
I'm the Operator of my Pocket Calculator. -Kraftwerk.
G6Tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2024, 8:45 pm   #4
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,925
Default Re: The "Zepp" or "Zeppelin" antenna.

The diagrams posted by Tanuki show what happens:

The half lambda top has a high Z at its dead end. Half lambda rotates this one full revolution on the Smith chart, giving a high-Z feedpoint at the driven end. The quarter lambda of wire down to the ATU rotates this impedance half a rev further on the Smith chart and brrings us to a low Z at that node of the ATU. The other node of the ATU sees a quarter lambda vertical wire, the other side of the ladder. This is a dead end at the top, so high-Z. Coming down the vertical ladder rotates us half a rev on Mr Smith, which converts that high-Z to a low-Z at the ATU.

So the ATU is at a low Z place on both connections and can drive some power into the thing.

What I've just called low and high Z are simplifications, the radiation resistance of the currents in the wires bring the impedances away from the zero and infinite values of the simplistic view.

The quarter lambda vertical ladder is carrying fairly similar currents of opposite phases, so most of the fields created will just cancel.

So yes, the Zepp should work, and it does to an extent.

With hydrogen filled, leaky, gasbags and a transmitter, I'd feel rather nervous.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Feb 2024, 6:08 pm   #5
Rowbank
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Langholm, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 14
Default Re: The "Zepp" or "Zeppelin" antenna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Yes, it's vintage, has been around in various forms for near-on a century.
Attached is a not quite 90 year old QSL card of John Blair, G5FT's contact using a Zepp to have a duplex QSO.

It was February 1937 before GM was permitted in Scottish calls and GM5FT became his callsign.

Also attached is a photo of John and the perilously close Zepp feed line.

Bruce
GM4BDJ
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GM5FT - not GM.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	107.6 KB
ID:	293004   Click image for larger version

Name:	John Blair & radio.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	93.2 KB
ID:	293005  
Rowbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:46 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.